The camp outside Tesco....
  • barnesbq
    I whole heartedly agree with Misscara. There's a difference between helpless, homeless who need support and rehabilitation and these vagabonds. Get shot, I say.
    Where do I sign?
  • JungleFaceJake

    Fair do's

    Can't argue with the N4 majority, as this surprisingly seems to be.

    Wowee!

    I LOVE N4............?

  • barnesbq
    Also a problem, the guys who hang outside the William Hill next to The Stapleton Tavern who were so blatantly responsible for the burglary of my flat last year I nearly walked up to them and offered to buy my stuff back the next day.
    They may look harmless as they stand around, shouting, drinking and swearing from 9am until 9pm every single god damn day the bookies is open but believe me, they are part of a smal, organised crime ring. They watch local people coming and going and tip others off when there's an opportunity for petty crime (they are too drunk to do it themselves).
    I once saw them take drugs off a traffic warden who walked past. They also saw me see them.
    Lo and behold I am burgled and my car is ransacked (on the same day) two weeks later.

    The Police can't prove it so it still goes on. I tried to get rid of them by being conniving and overexaggerating one particular occasion (where they gave me and my flatmate homophobic abuse) in order to warrant Community Officers come round daily to move them on, therefore effectively disbanding them. But it involved a lot of effort from me, writing letters and calling the police, so I didn't bother seeing it through.

    A drive by shooting on the Grand National day would have been ideal, but alas, that didn't happen either.

    Can I have my own thread for these scummers, please? I could rant for pages and pages.
  • Ali

    I have noticed them as well when I have to walk past them to a carry out from the Indian up the road, they are offensive and do look slightly worrying.

    Sounds like the police are not particularly onto this one either ?

    The local lot can be e-mailed at StroudGreen.snt@met.police.uk

    Looking at http://www.police.uk/ it seems that crime is fairly steady over the last few months with about 1300 crimes within 1.5 kms of the centre Stroud Green (Tesco) per month so I guess the police are probably pretty busy getting that all written down and recorded in their databases.

  • Kaz
    I don't think they actually have a flat... I've spoken to Joanne, that's the Scottish girl a few times over the years, and she told me she stays with friends sometimes.
  • Sevlow

    Whatever happened to the black geezer (spare 50 pence please?)

  • Kaz
    I wonder what happened to the northern guy who sold the Big Issue. He used to sell it outside Tesco and at the station. He was nice, I hope he has sorted himself out.
  • dorothy

    I’ve spoken to Joanne over the years quite a few times as well. She’s from Glasgow. I’m not sure if she has got a flat or not, although I’ve seen her going into a place on Osborne Road, but also somewhere on Stroud Green Road. I would have thought if she had a flat, she would be in breach of her tenancy for anti-social behaviour by now.

    It’s probably a good spot for begging. I think a lot of Stroud Greeners are quite sweet to her. I’ve seen old ladies give her sweaters, quite a lot of folk stop and chat and people give her food and coffee.

    I’m a bit of a soft touch and usually when I talk to her she tells me what I think what she wants me to hear, which is; she’s getting her life together; is about to be housed somewhere away from the bad company she keeps; made contact with her children who were in care etc.

    After ten years, it’s all worn a bit thin with me now. She makes a beeline for me when she sees me, and I tend to walk on the other side now.

  • checkski
    This is disgraceful. We now know as much about one of the street people as we do about some celebs who have CHOSEN to put themselves in the public eye. We know her name, her history, her circumstances. The loudest voice on this thread has described her and her companions as rubbish. Only one other voice has demurred at this public pillorying. How many silent readers of this website will have been influenced by this diatribe, and will in future behave aggressively towards people they think they now know, are justified in attacking, feel themslves to be part of an ad hominem campaign? In a different context this could perhaps be grounds for an action for libel.

    If you want to discuss behaviour in the street, do so, by all means. If you think it is serious enough to campaign for something to be done about it, you are entitled to do so. But the minute you get personal and abusive, you risk infringing an individual's civil rights, although those who describe their fellow human beings as rubbish plainly don't think they've got any. We've had this problem before, with Tollington Tom, who was perfectly well able to look after himself, and with that thread about street 'characters', some of whom were not (although, to be fair, I don't think there was much abuse, on that occasion).

    For Miss Cara, who does not know how to argue, and how likes to give vent to her anger regardless of possible consequences, I am a NIMBY. Because I try to make this simple case in defence of civil rights generally, I am a hypocrite, because I have nothing to do with the people in question, and have not invited them all round for the night. She justifies her behaviour, not for the first time, with a holier than thou reference to her work for the homeless. Please stop it, Miss C, and think twice before shouting about people who are not in a position to shout back.
  • WillM
    "For Miss Cara, who does not know how to argue,"

    That's a highly odd remark, checkski. Especially for someone who's decrying a discussion about street people for becoming 'too personal'...
  • ArkadyArkady

    Nonsense Checkski. She doesn’t have the civil right to live and beg on the street, as a point of fact. You may not like the language used to criticise – and fair enough. But it is neither libellous nor an infringement of rights to describe someone as ‘rubbish’. Impolite, perhaps. Your emphasis on that criticism - rather than the problematic behaviour that led to it - is misplaced.

  • Papa L
    Checkski you make a fair point, but I disagree.

    The general test for privacy and discussion of celebrities private lives is whether they have used their personal life for financial gain, ie done Hello and OK etc.

    In terms of being discussed on a local community message board, there is an argument that a parallel could be drawn with a decade's worth of high profile begging and seeking to profit from looking down and out on the doorstep of SGR's most visited shop.

    There will be plenty of people here who have given money based on the depiction of hungry and homeless - if you play on that to make money and aren't, or are spending money on drugs taken on the street, (and are also benefitting from taxpayer funded accomodation) you are open to discussion and criticism.

    That probably sounds harsh, but I'd say there has been more understanding, compassion and defence of Camp Tesco's right to be there on this thread than you suggest.
  • Emma
    I liked it better when we were talking about teats, gotta say.
  • ArkadyArkady

    So soon after your bikini post Emma...

  • krappyrubsnifkrappyrubsnif
    @chekski, in the Internet age, the concept of 'privacy' is a thing of the past
  • barnesbq
    I think anyone who harps on about people's civil rights in a forum is missing the point of a forum being a place for people to express their opinions. Nothing Misscara said is libellous at all.
    However, pretty much everything I said about the guys outside William Hill *probably* being burglars was completely libellous. But I don't give a shit, because they are low-life scummy bastards who make my life, and that of others, on occasion, really rather difficult and unpleasant.
  • sincers

    Slightly prickly thread this and I've often started a comment and then deleted it. I slightly object to the suggestion that posts influence the thinking of members, rather they reinforce existing values and beliefs. Although I, for one, enjoy the fact that posts quite often challenge these in me and I use my own reason and judgement to decide whether "I've got it wrong". Such has been the case here.

    I can't claim to be an advocate of civil liberties, but I understand what is reasonable and acceptable behaviour. I don't, for example, think its acceptable that everyone walks down the streets in the buff, though technically they could within the law. I don't find it acceptable that a small minority of individuals have the right to sully a popular thoroughfare or retail entrance, let alone display, unabashed, unlawful practices, such as begging, drug-taking, littering and generally being a public nuisance. So, that many sympathise with the camp is a moot point.

    I'm for the "finding a solution to remove them" camp. And no, they can't stay at mine.

  • Philistine'sMonster
    This is the horniest thread ever.

    Arkady, I love you. I used to love Tosscat but he's spurned my advances. I quite fancy Miss Annie, but she's taken, I believe.

     I get rude thoughts about Misscara, too. Sometimes. She's pretty sexy but scary. Four Eyes seems nice.

    Arkady Is first choice cos he knows EVERYTHING, but I still reckon I could teach him a few tricks.


    Look: I'm desperate. Share the love, will you. I'm a considerate and kind lover.


    But don't whisper me. Whispering frightens me. It's like "the voices".

    X
  • Emma
    I think I might have still been drunk when I posted about teats and bikinis this morning.
  • ArkadyArkady

    Just because I’m a knowitall gobshite doesn’t mean I’d make a good lover.

    I mean I am a good lover, but it doesn’t follow logically…

  • ArkadyArkady

    ‘Teats and Bikinis’ – finally I know what to name my band.

  • WillM
    Not 'Drunken Web Ramblings'?
  • Detritus

    Miss Annie is taken but......

    £25 ph and a bag of peanuts and she is yours.

  • checkski
    @ Arkady, re libel and civil rights.

    I wrote a long post in defence of my position, but then, sickeneningly, managed to lose the lot, and I haven't got the stomach to go through it all again, nor to add any more to this discussion.

    I am very disappointed that that the majority, including you, seem to think that this group have forfeited what rights they had, by behaving badly. The reactions of some posters have been savage in the extreme. That way lies fascism, I think...

    ...but hardly anyone agrees with me, so I'd better leave it there.
  • barnesbq
    checkski, I kind of know what you mean. Do we have a right to tell people where to go and what to do, just because we don't like seeing it? And to an extent I think we don't. But then, if I think about the guys outside the bookies I was on about - I think that when I pay a lot of rent to live in my flat, and they are all unemployed and drunk being aggressive in my doorway most days of the week, night and day, I kind of think that actually I DO have a right to say I think they should be removed. I know I could move house to anywhere else in the world to get away from them, but I am not going to do that. I want to live in this flat, and I want to feel safe here. I pay for the council and for the police, so I want them to help me eject people who are posing a nuisance and threat to the public and individuals by conducting what amounts to petty crime and anti-social behaviour. I am no fan of the Daily Mail, and I realise how Daily Mail this post sounds, but for God's sake - if we didn't get a bit fascist on these guys asses we would be living in MAYHEM I tell you! MAYHEM
  • barnesbq
    and when somebody calls you a faggot as you come home from work - you're not really going to sympathise with their plight or situation of being a near-homeless, robbing, alcoholic drug-dependent problem-riddled person are you?
    Infact, if you are me, you are going to seriously dislike them.
  • checkski
    Poor you, barnesbq. And I agree with much of that. Of course you are entitled to dislike them, and to get help from the police.The fact that these people have rights doesn't mean that you haven't got any. From what you say they are seriously infringing yours.I hope you get it sorted out.
  • ArkadyArkady

    @Checkski - yeah I hate it when that happens.

    I think that the core of this disagreement is as follows: I and others don't think that the people in question have a right to permenantly occupy that piece of public space, begging, littering, dealing and taking 'hard' drugs in front of passers-by. To support our argument we have the Vagrancy Act, amongst other things. You, on the other hand, seem to be saying that we are infringing their rights in some way, but have yet to support this argument wih evidence. You have mentioned libel, but libel clearly does not apply here unless you can prove that they have been deliberately lied about.

    As I and others have droned on about before - believing that that group should not be allowed to continue their nefarious occupation of the pavement is not the same thing as lacking compassion for the unfortunate. I take my lead from the founder of the Big Issue on this - allowing begging and vagrancy makes the problem much, much worse.

    Arky

  • checkski
    I really can't bring myself to go through all this again, Arky, despite your reasonable tone! My point is incredibly simple. Most of your last post is right. Of course they shouldn't be allowed to behave in that way. I object, though, when agreement about that (and I don't think anyone DISagrees) tips over into abuse and a disinclination to see the whole picture.

    Hysteria leads to narrow-mindedness and aggression, leads to (eg) racism, leads to fascism. Of course, we are a long way from that, thank God. But, unlike an earlier poster, I think that sort of reaction could for some legitimise nasty clashes in the street, and, generally, a negative attitude to very unfortunate people - because I'm convinced that that's what they are, au fond. It's the role of the Daily Mail and other tabloids to whip up prejudice, as barnesbq says, and I think it should be discouraged on SG.org.
  • ArkadyArkady

    I understand, and broadly agree. This thread would have been a lot shorter if your last post had been your first.

    Still, should you bump into Misscara at any point I'm confident that your fear that she is some kind of rabble-rousing blackshirt will be rapidly dispelled. In the event of her declaring herself fuhrer of Stroud Green I will eat my words (maybe even my hat).

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