First Crapital Connect

[Deleted User]

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miss annie

Wouldn't the tube from Manor House be more reliable? It's a straightforward change at King's Cross. If you have an hour the 141 goes door to door. Mind you, if you're relying on FCC it probably takes an hour anyway.

Papa

Luckily I don't have to use it daily, although if it runs smoothly that journey is a good one, but FCC are an awful train operator - perhaps the worst. <br><br>The Thameslink line they run out to St Albans etc from St Pancras is not only diabolically unreliable but also ridiculously expensive for what is essentially a very short journey.<br><br>They also pioneered the evening peak money-grab, blocking people who had travelled in on an off-peak day return from going home for a large chunk of the afternoon/evening without paying extra. <br>They did this straight after winning the franchise but made no mention of the plans in their tender. It has made no difference to crowding on the trains, yet it remains there years later milking passengers for all they are worth.<br><br>Since taking on the Finsbury Park line, they have shunted the train times into a ludicrous bunching so that slow and fast trains out to Welwyn Garden City run within a few minutes of each other and then there is a big gap between the next ones.<br><br>They have now also done this on the other line too.<br><br>Their trains are often of an appalling quality and they are the epitome of everything that is wrong with our privatised rail system. Still they have been paying their shareholders massive dividends over the years, so why should we worry.<br><br>Apologies for the rant, but I can't stand them.<br><br> <br>

graeme

Used to do Hgy to Mog.  I would only take it if I could get the train no later than 7.30am.  After that, it invariably went to shit, and any time around 8-9 the chance of actually getting on a train should one arrive was approaching 1:3<br><br>Their timekeeping has always been terrible.  The near-constant (I'm talking 80%) delaying of the Hgy service at Alexandra Palace while it waits for a fast train to speed through was just too much.  I know it's only mere minutes, but they are just stealing time rather than finding solutions in scheduling.  Couple that with the information they provide being late ("Due in 2 mins. On time, on time, on time, oh now it's 8 minutes late")<br><br>Now working at Canary Wharf, for the extra £ required to travel to/from that one station in Zone 3 to CW [£4.60 as opposed to £2.80!], I walk to Finsbury Park now.  Saves money, and keeps it far from the shitshow that is FCC. <br><br>I would also suggest it should be cheaper to travel from Haringey than from FPark on FCC because your chances of getting on a service are greatly reduced at Haringey compared to FPark.   <br><br>Readers, there will be no uplifting posts on this thread.<br>

miss annie

London Overground to Canada Water and beyond is brilliant, I use it at least twice a week. One stop on the Victoria Line to Hi&I and you're off!

Papa

FCC is a case study for why commuter lines into London should be pulled under the control of TFL.<br><br>TFL may be a heavy beast but it is far more competent than most of the big train operators and the fares could be pulled down substantially.<br><br><br>

poxy

<p>If you're travelling from FP to Canary Wharf on PAYG, swipe on the pink Oyster reader at H&I but not at Canada Water.  You'll find you save money as the system doesn't log you as travelling via Zone 1.  This won't even be picked up by any on the spot ticket checks.</p> <p>Also, consider taking the first London Overground train out of H&I.  Travelling to Canary Wharf via Stratford (using the Jubilee Line for the final leg) takes only marginally longer than the old East London Line route, properly avoids Zone 1 and you're more likely to get a seat.</p>

Arkady

What Papa L said.<div><br></div><div>Whoever ends up running the route from 2015, there should be considerable improvements due to the increase in line capacity and the fact that there will be an evening & weekend service to Moorgate.  Lots of geekery from me on this subject here if anyone missed it: <a href="http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/east-coast-mainline-routes-branches-part-2-hertford-loop-northern-city-line/" style="font-size: 10pt;">http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/east-coast-mainline-routes-branches-part-2-hertford-loop-northern-city-line/</a></div><div><br></div><div>Poxy - I was under the impression that FP-Canada Water via Overground is deliberately not a 'central london' journey.  It only counts as zone one if you enter or exit via Shoreditch High Street (a sop to other train operators), otherwise the route pretends not to run through Zone 1.</div>

poxy

<div class="fareBreakdown"> <h2>Finsbury Park to Canary Wharf </h2> <div class="summary"><strong>Single fare:</strong></div> <div class="summary"> </div> <table summary="Fare summary for your journey"> <tbody> <tr> <th class="cash" rowspan="1"><strong>Cash</strong> </th> <td><strong>£4.50</strong> <p>At any time.</p></td></tr> <tr> <th class="oyster" rowspan="2"><strong>Oyster</strong> </th> <td> <p><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span><strong></strong></p> <p><strong>£2.80</strong> </p> <p>Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.</p></td></tr> <tr> <td><strong>£2.10</strong> <p>At all other times including public holidays.</p></td></tr></tbody></table></div><br> <div class="fareBreakdown"> <h2><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">Alternative Oyster single fares:</font></h2> <div class="summary"><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><strong>Route 1:</strong> Avoiding Zone 1 via Tottenham Hale and Stratford </font></div> <table summary="Fare summary for your journey"> <tbody> <tr> <th class="oyster" rowspan="2"><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><strong>Oyster</strong> </font></th> <td><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font><strong>£1.60</strong> </font> </span><p><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.</font></p></td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font><strong>£1.50</strong> </font> </span><p><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">At all other times including public holidays.</font></p></td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="summary"><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><strong>Route 2:</strong> </font><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">Avoiding Zone 1 via Highbury & Islington and Stratford </font></div> <table summary="Fare summary for your journey"> <tbody> <tr> <th class="oyster" rowspan="2"><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><strong>Oyster</strong> </font></th> <td><font><strong style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">£1.60</strong> </font> <p><font style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900.</font></p></td></tr> <tr> <td><font><strong style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">£1.50</strong> </font> <p>At all other times including public holidays.</p></td></tr> <tr> <th><a href="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/12421.aspx"><img alt="" src="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtickets/images/bg-pink.gif" width="107" height="78"></a> </th> <td>To ensure you are charged the appropriate fare you must touch on the pink card reader on the Oyster route validator if interchanging at Highbury & Islington and Stratford </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <ul> <li>When you pay as you go, you must touch your Oyster card on a yellow card reader at the start and end of your journey. If you do not, you may be charged a maximum Oyster fare.</li> <li>Some journeys are charged via Zone 1 irrespective of the route taken.</li> <li>Cash single and return tickets are valid for travel only on the date shown on the ticket and up to 04:30 the next day.</li> <li>Cash return fares are double the equivalent single fare. In some cases a Day Travelcard may be cheaper.</li></ul>

Papa

I should also clarify that when I say hand commuter lines to TFL, I mean all the way out. <br><br>So FCC to Bedford and Cambridge, for example. These are essential routes mainly used by people going to work. An essential public service for the economy in the same way the Tube is.<br><br>To put it into context.<br><br>The annual - so cheapest - season ticket for just the train from Harpenden to St Pancras, a 25 minute journey, is £3,400. <br><br>If you pay 20% tax that means £4,250 of your salary goes on simply getting to work, at 40% it is £5,670.<br><br><br><br>

[Deleted User]

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NorthNineteen

But yet the trains are rammed to bursting point and companies are wanting to relocate or expand within Central London....  Could be argued the fares are too low.<br>

Marquis

<P>The 141 from Manor House is my preferred option now. Takes about 35 minutes on a good day (rare) and around 50 on all others. That's a lot longer than all other journeys, but your quality of life will be tripled. You <STRONG>always </STRONG>get a seat! You can read and have enough time to really immerse yourself! Or you can snooze, knit, crochet etc. etc. (please don't use the time to make calls), and it's probably also cheaper on PAYG (don't know, have Travelcard). You arrive at work and your will to live is still intact.</P> <P>At the moment Moorgate is reduced to one lane because of the Crossrail site, so it's best to get off at Finsbury Square.</P> <P>I agree with everything (negative) that has been said so far about the FCC service from FP. I heard once that they last upgraded their rolling stock in the 70s. Is that true?</P>

NorthNineteen

I think FCC now has the oldest rolling stock in London, and if not already it will in the future as there are no plans to upgrade it!  I hate the 3x2 seating arrangement.<br>

miss annie

I go to Clapham via Canada Water from FP frequently, changing at Highbury onto Overground. I did it this morning in fact and it cost 1.50! Much cheaper than tube. Bargain if you are going to anywhere on that line.

Papa

@northnineteen the trains are rammed to bursting point because London is where all the work is, people have to go there and too high house prices and rents push extra workers further out.<br><br>It's also why Finsbury Park tube is so much busier than it was say five or eight years ago. More people coming in on the train and changing to the tube, because they have been forced out.<br>

NorthNineteen

How are cheaper fares going to help that?  Or have I misunderstood what you were implying?<br>

Arkady

Poxy is right about the fares.  I investigated this, and Miss Annie was only charged £1.50 because the system kindly assumes that she travelled through West London rather than East.

Papa

I wasn't making a point about overcrowding, I was making a point about astronomically expensive rail fares.<br><br>Cheaper fares aren't going to help overcrowding, they are needed to help people's personal finances, which ultimately helps the economy.<br><br>The overcrowding is a whole other problem in itself, caused by years of underinvestment, and trying to ease it by simply sending fares even higher is not a sensible solution.<br>

Ali

<P>This seems relevant here, looks like 80 odd million journeys are being taken on similar routes to Miss Annie</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21587223-how-one-railway-line-helped-change-way-londoners-commute-loop">http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21587223-how-one-railway-line-helped-change-way-londoners-commute-loop</A></P>;

miss annie

I love the Overground. I visit 32 different shops for work from Walthamstow to Twickenham, and use Overground to the ones I can't quite cycle to. I have an increasing aversion to the Underground, I've never been a huge fan even when I was little but now it's so much more crowded I'll do anything I can to avoid it. A combo of Overground, bus bike gets me everywhere I need to go. Except Kingston, haven't worked out a simple route for that one.

Arkady

I fear that the Overground is about to become substantially less fun at weekends. They finally committed to five-car platform extensions this year, so there will be lots of closures.

Arkady

In fact, no sooner do I post that than I receive an email from TfL saying that work starts this weekend.

graeme

I am trying the £1.50 to Canada Water OSI interchange at H&I today. But remember why I reduced my usage of the Overground - the train time info they provide treats paying customers like shit. And whoever positioned the info boards in the ticket hall needs a dry slap. Standing in platforms way beyond when the train was due. Mass exodus as another train arrives at other platform etc. If it costs me £1.50 I might rather pay the extra and take the Tube, which is 'not terrible' in the customer info stakes.<br><br><edit><br>hmm And it didn't work, was still charged £2.80, with an extra change and some standing around.  <br>Which pink scanner are you supposed to touch on? The one at the underground platforms? I touched on the one on the -> Clapham Junction Overground platform.<br>

miss annie

Trains are every 15mins. The information boards are in a dreadful position at Highbury. I've never had a delayed train. Typical, when you praise something to the skies it has an off day!

NorthNineteen

Well it's having an off-week what with the freight train derailment at Camden Road.<br>

Peter Crumb

Reading this thread reminds me of why I cycle to work. If I ever have to get the tube it makes me angry for the whole day! When I do go in peak times and change at Kings Cross, I've started to get the Pic instead of the Vic it is noticeably less crowded.

Stella

Yep. Public transport can be nice if you have all the time in the world and it's pissing down. Other than that it's just expensive entertainment you don't ask for. I prefer cycling any time.<br>

Sutent

The best bit of not getting public transport is that I do not have to encounter those people who must hold hands as they walk down the wells terrace entrance of Finsbury Park station. I will never understand why people need to hold hands in that tunnel. I bet they don't hold hands at home. <div><br></div><div>Unfortunately I have come across people romantic cycling next to each other on Boris bikes blocking canal tow paths and the cycle lanes in Hyde park. Thankfully the weather has put an end to that. </div>

Stella

I love holding hands; I also love hugging. :-)<br>

Sutent

So do I Stella but not when it disrupts and irritates other people