London 2050 Plan

Arkady

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/suburban-commandos-transport-london-2050/</font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">There is a fascinating article and discussion over at LondonReconnections on the developing plans for what London should look like in 2050, rooted in demographic expectations and other factors.  It touches on a lot of the stuff that we have been debating in recent months/years.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Headlines:</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">We will soon overtake London's previous peak population of 8.6 million.  By 2050 it will be around 11 million.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Most of the growth will be in the suburbs, as the centre is already maxed out - expect increased housing density.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">A lot of infrastructure expense is needed, especially to boost inter-suburban transport. There is some interesting/scary talk about restoring more abandoned railways.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Expect TfL to take over more suburban lines.</font></div>

kreuzkav

@ Ben, <div><br></div><div>Do you remember about three years ago I asked you if you were looking to be a politician or get involved professionally in the Regeneration Game? You denied it.  You have proven me right.  I knew you had long term plans concerning this area.  How perceptive I was.  Nothing wrong with that but your denial was false.</div>

Arkady

I’m not quite sure what I am being accused of. Care to link to the original exchange?<br><br>I’m very, very interested in urban issues of all kinds, especially long-term planning (and most especially stuff to do with trains). I have some thoughts on my own concerning this. I suspect the same could be said of lots of posters here, including yourself. Is that what you mean by getting “involved in the ‘Regeneration Game” or “having a long-term plan for the area”?<br><br>My suspicion is that you don’t mean that, and you’re actually being more malicious, and is that this is another example of your borderline and sometimes actually libellous tendency to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is part of some sort of Evil Conspiracy.<br><br>Did you read the article? Do you disagree with any of its premises or conclusions? If so, why?<br>

Arkady

You have reminded me, though, of the mildly embarrassing evening when Richard Wilson persuaded me to stand for councillor. I’d been working on the campaign to improve services at Harringay and Hornsey stations (some of you will recall me boring on about it at the time). Mr Wilson had clearly noticed that I was up for a bit of community activism, and that my name was on his membership lists, so he took me to the Great Northern Railway Tavern and plied me with pints. It took me quite some time to realise that he was asking me to stand, rather than just asking me to recommend somebody who I thought might be up for it. By that point I was tipsy enough and embarrassed enough to say yes. Now he owns me, and I spend three evenings a week knocking on people’s doors. <div><br></div><div>And you know what? <span style="font-size: 10pt;">Turns out it’s quite a lot of fun, and you get to help people – whether or not you are actually elected. That’s even worth the downsides, like being accused of being a bulldozer in human form.</span></div>

Stella

I think you're rather wonderful, Ben, and I'm very much looking forward to meeting you. If you ever knock on my door, you'll get a cuppa. <br>

kreuzkav

Ben, all you care for is middle class preservation in the area.  Sash windows.  You poured derision on working class people before, under your name Arky.  You hate the While Lion and think people who go in there are low life.And you cheerleaded the awful development that is around the station.

Mirandola

Hmmm. I'm pretty sure Arkady/Ben's geekiness is sincere. Plus standing as a local councillor is hardly running for grand overlord of evil doing.

Arkady

<a href="http://www.haringeyindependent.co.uk/resources/images/2402735.jpg?type=articlePortrait">Look at that fellah on the left</a>. Look at his nerdy glasses, his risible facial hair, his foolish scarf decision, at his ignorance of the impending vehicular threat approaching rapidly from behind. Do I look like I’m just pretending to be a geek?<div><br></div><div>Cheers Stella. I'd like to meet your iguana. <br><br>You know what kreuzkav, I’m just going to let your comments stand. People can make their own judgements about our respective characters and intentions. Your consistent unpleasantness towards me is the best endorsement I could possibly ask for. Plenty of people remember that our ability to post here is restricted in the evenings because of your consistently appalling behaviour – not least your encouraging someone to kill themselves. Is anything I have ever said (or been spuriously alleged to have said) here as bad as that? I genuinely wish you well and hope that you find some way to happiness – if only because you might be less determined to be so unkind. Best of luck.<br></div>

Arkady

I may, though, adopt the title Grand Overlord of Evil Doing

kreuzkav

Ben, just because you've changed your name from Arkady doesn't mean I have forgotten your disdain for the working class and your patronising tone. You can adopt the political speak of libel but I know what you said.  So if somone says something to you in cafe, pub, street. and you don't record it, it means it didn't happen.  If you require every attitude and thing you said to be backed up when in all likelihood I can't find it or the discussion has been closed you show yourself up to be a typical guttersnipe politician who hides behind lawyers etc.  <div><br></div><div>And when did I encourage someone to kill themselves?  </div>

Arkady

Like a good politician, I will refer you to my previous answer.

kreuzkav

Says it all. 

Arkady

So, anyone got any thoughts on the London 2050 plan?

Stella

Great, that's what I comes down to: people only want to meet my iguana. *sobs*<br><br>I'm pretty sure he'd not make a good impression right now as he's a right pain in the arse! The iguana, not Ben, I might add.<br>

kreuzkav

Get rid of the developers who are only in it for the money and bring back proper social housing plans.  I think we're doing alright for transport networks.  With crossrail and and some of the lines being joined up it's okay.  I'd like to see better worker rights being brought into place.  A higher minimum wage would be good.  Rent capping and not allowing oversee investors to buy up property would be good too.  Basically, new housing should be aimed at the working and lower middle classes, not the rich.

checkski

Kreuzkav, for God's sake, back off. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen you do this - the appalling ding dong with Misscara was the last. You are plainly vulnerable, and I have thought MissC, Arky, and others should go easy on you, for that reason. The pattern is always the same: you launch into your obsession with social class; you make it personal; the other party lashes back; you get hurt; you go silent for a bit; you return, desperate to be friends with your last opponent (eg MissC, again) - but before long you are off again. I have 'known' Arkady/Ben (ie virtually) for some time, and do not agree with everything he has said. The LibDems are not my cup of tea, and I do not see them as friends of the working class. But your accusation is vicious and ludicrous. Arkady is not guilty of that kind of snobbery. Once again, it is your own personal hang-up. I suggest you leave it there, Kreuzkav. You can be very funny, but when you are in this mode it is painful to behold.

kreuzkav

@ Checkski, what does vulnerable mean?  I can look up the definition but don't understand it concerning me.

checkski

Let's say, easily hurt.

kreuzkav

But that doesn't mean I should put up with what they say. For instance, wrong views about my social housing or patronising attitudes towards the working class.  I just want them to learn from what I say rather than be arrogant and non-caring.  

kreuzkav

@ checkski, You're a caring man and thanks.  Ben might be a middle class politician with tunnel vision towards development but I'm not going to change it.  <div><br></div>

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

kreuzkav

Misscara, why do you always misspell my name?  Is it your phone?  <div><br></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">  </span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Arkady

Genuinely baffled by the White Lion thing. I may have made some arched quips about it in the past (mostly about its dodgy ale-keeping record), but I drink in there occasionally as some of you know. I've drunk with you in there, Misscara. I admit that it is my least favourite boozer in SG (despite the gorgeous pictures and Victorian glasswork), but that's nothing to do with clientèle - I much prefer the Nickleby which is much more proletarian.<br><br>I confess to being a teeny bit quiver-lipped that I'm now being portrayed as some sort of despoiler of the working classes. There are people here who have met members of my family and know that I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my gob - far from it. As Misscara kindly implies, I spend as much time pounding up and down the stairs of Charter Court and Chettle Court as I do the leafy Upper East Side, and much of my case work has been for the most vulnerable residents and I'm bloody proud of that - I doubt Kreuzkav has ever been physically tortured by any foreign governments and separated from his family, for instance.  Now *there's* vulnerable.

Sutent

@kreuzkav. No one more than me has fought on here about the rights of the poor and working class. Misscara is right, Ben is a good guy and you can tell by his posts he is committed to local issues. If elected i think he will be very good and we have the forum here to duscuss things with him. Surprisingly there are lots of people on here with very right wing views who aren't that wealthy, but Ben isn't one of them. @ben. I can't wait to read the London connection article. 8-10 hours a day at this conference is tiring my brain. Looking forward to filling my brain with trains again very soon.

kreuzkav

Ben, I haven't been tortured.  Why does it all come down to this?  When people go on about class divide the middle-class often point to their gap year in India and say 'if you want to know class divide go there'.  I don't buy it.  There is a class divide and the problem with politics now is that it's all so central.  I'm not a politician and why would I be going up and down Charter Court.  <br>

kreuzkav

And what's sad is that a working class couple on 40.000 combinded income can only afford to mortgage a one or two bedroom flat.  Both my parents were working class and were able in the 70s to get a mortgage for a three bed place.  Crazy.  I'm happy to rent.  But do we want this to go on.  Luxury flats around the station etc.  

Sutent

@kreuzkav. There are lots of things we can do. Come to the social and we can discuss over a pint

kreuzkav

@ Sutent.  At the end of the day you're a professional in the medical industry.  This is good and you're very caring but not everyone can strive for this.  Some people will be supermarket workers.  Nothing wrong with that.  Not everyone is destined to strive to be middle class.  The so called aspiring.  And it's a dirty word to care for those that will never earn more than 17 grand.  Surely they are entitled to housing, and decent care for their children.  

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Mirandola

Ben really really isn't the Koch brothers. C'mon here.

Arkady

There's a joke that writes itself.