Making the area better?

commissar17 · July 2010

Greetings and Salutations, Fellow Stroud Greeners!

The Woodstock Road Association (London's oldest functioning tenants' association) has done an informal but widespread local survey asking folks to outline their top five priorities for our area. Here are the results; tell us what you think:

(1) Install lifts at Finsbury Park station (we're not all young or able-bodied). The Station Place façade was tarted up, but what happened to the rest of the former Finsbury Park Partnership's £25 million?

(2) Establish a green space -- a mini-park (as previously suggested by Haringey council and then reneged on) at the NE corner of Stroud Green Rd & Upper Tollingon Park. 'Stroud Green' would then have a -- er -- Stroud Green [!].

(3) Give us back our 'free speech' community noticeboards, of which there were two -- both on the Haringey side of Stroud Green Road between Upper Tollingon Park and Lorne Road.

(4) How about a neighbourhood centre, or at least somewhere where local groups can get together for meetings and functions at a reasonable hire fee? There's nowhere at the moment.

(5) Regular, and binding, meetings between elected councillors on both sides of Stroud Green Road. We're one community arbitrarily divided between Islington and Haringey, and co-ordination between the two is crucial. An obvious example was the closure of our local Arthur Simpson Library by Islington Council, which took place without people on the 'wrong' side of the road being allowed to participate in the consultation process.

What does everyone make of these ideas?

Arkady · July 2010

I especially like the ‘green for Stroud Green’ and co-ordination of councillors. Bravo. Where can I find out more about the Woodstock Road Association?

miss annie · July 2010

I like the idea of a Green very much. I would like it even more if it was furnished with a duck pond and possibly a maypole.

Arkady · July 2010

I’m game for naked pagan maypole dancing and other larking about. The proposed green would be much improved by the demolition of the eyesore behind it, home of Granny’s Caribbean Shack. Has anyone actual bought food from there? A

andy · July 2010

1. Agree, but I think they said they ran out of money for this 2. Agree. Also, pave over the little access road used as a minicab car park to open up the public space there. 3. Or, the internet. Not sure this is a big priority. However, if it stops NHS Islington stapling posters to trees then I'm in favour. 4. Not sure this is a massive priority. Plenty of schools, churches, pubs. Need better access to existing space rather than new space. 5. Agree with the sentiment. I would like the Council (on whichever side) to be creative about any empty shops they own on SGR. They could offer reduced rates/long leases to independently owned businesses, and possibly even loan guarantees giving them some protection and incentive to invest. This happens in Paris.

miss annie · July 2010

If they were prepared to be more flexible I'd definitely consider opening a shop here.

Ali · July 2010

The Council did put some nice new quite fancy gates at the back of where Stroud Green would have been. Some of you will remember that an Architecture Student ran a project on creating a green here and had consultation days etc with quite a lot of visibility. Not sure if the made this blog but there was certainly lots about this on the Myspace blog at the time. I think the Student must have got her degree and that was that. Wasn’t aware the Council has ever promised anything. Ken L did in that he had a new London Open spaces/square initiative which since Boris the clown has been around seems to have disappeared

commissar17 · July 2010

Thanks to everbody for the thoughtful contributions so far. I forgot to mention in launching this discussion that you can contact the Woodstock Road Association at thewra@hotmail.com or by 'snail mail' at 69 Woodstock Road N4. We haven't got a website yet but plans for this are in the works.

A note to Andy and Miss Annie: Flexible financial arrangements for small local businesses DO sound like a good idea. This is, indeed, done in Paris (I used to live there, myself). T'would be good to give the likes of Tesco and Sainsbury a run for their money, wouldn't it?

Arkady · July 2010

I’d like to know more about the history of Woodstock Rd. I read that it and Perth Rd were saved from the post-war vandalism treatment applied to Lorne, Marquis and Osborne Rds after a campaign of some kind. Also that a lot of building s around there were derelict up to the 1970s. To my inexpert eye it looks like there was a lot of renovation on Woodstock Rd at some point at about the same period of time.

graeme · July 2010

Not much to add, but re: the shops on SGR - when Michael Morris opened his estate agent (admittedly perhaps not a crucial local amenity), it lay empty for about a year iirc while the council to-and-fro'ed about the consent. In that time, two fruit and veg type shops opened seemingly overnight, as did the kebab shop near the wig shops.

Suppose it depends whether the council(s) thinks a shop is 'right' for the area, and appear happy for places to be stagnant for a very long time rather than let the 'wrong' type of business open up - making the area unattractive to pretty much everyone. Seems a bit hairbrained, but am sure the council boffins have a strategy.

The idea of an actual tiny green at SGR/UTP is nice, would support that.

ADGS · July 2010

The shop idea for SGR is very good. Regarding a community centre - what's that Laundry thing on Sparsholt Road? I always assumed it was something along those lines.

Ali · July 2010

Where the green could be was where Busby had his WW2 Swiming Pool

Marquis · July 2010

- Arkady, given the recent rise in violent crime I shudder to think of all the bloodshed and carnage a green (!) with a pond (!!) and a pole (!!!) may encourage. I have had food from Granny's twice. If I remember correctly there was only one choice for vegetarians, a beany-ricey-thing that tasted of rice and beans, later with hot sauce. The second time I went back for some more of the same (hot sauce mainly) they had run out of that dish and there were cakes with a slice of processed cheese in the middle. The latter wasn't for me. Although both were very filling and good value.

dorothy · July 2010

Hello Commissionar17 I like the park idea. I knew the architecture student who did some plans for the area. I also met with the Finsbury Park Partnership Programme Manager years ago about it. There was quite a lot of work around it and a lot of consultation that happened. I still have a lot of the paperwork. Local Councillors were supportive and so were John Jones I remember. One of the ideas was to get rid of the road and pave it over, perhaps have some market stalls there. The traders there were very against that bit. It came to nothing really for lots of reasons, which I can't go into on here. Since the council owns the land, they would have to do the work/put it out for tender. In my discussions with the Council and FPP I always got bogged down with how we could only have street furniture from the existing pallet, which was quite limited, health and safety, disability access, long term maintenance, insurance, tendering the work, parking, drains etc. Then it would be expensive, upwards of £150,000 and it wasn't a priority. We talked about fundraising for the project, but this is hard to do unless you own the land. We would have to fundraise and give the money to the council which is a bit odd, but maybe not impossible, could be done with a third party facilitating the work. Groundwork do this sort of thing, but they're expensive. I'd be happy to brief you on what we did, although it's a little hazy, was years ago. I also fundraised quite a lot of money for consultation, and it's still sitting in HSBC on Seven Sisters Rd, probably earmarked, ironically, as a dormant account that can be used for Big Society projects.

Ali · July 2010

Is this not the idea Big Society ! Speak up LibCons !

commissar17 · July 2010

Many thanks for your detailed comments on the mini-park idea, Dorothy. I'll pass them on at our next WRA meeting.

andy · July 2010

Here's my idea about small shops 1. *The deal:* Some deal is put together by the Council on empty shops where they are landlords. Something like a 50% rebate on rates for three years, 6 months free rent and two years at 75% market rent. In total, this package could be worth £50k-£100k per shop over three years, which could be the difference between investing or not. 2. *Some criteria about the business*: Both in scale and ownership. Eligibility probably requires current turnover of less than £2m, so we don't get a Costa, but don't preclude a small business, like Banners, opening a new venue. I think we definitely want retail, or public access of some kind. The idea is to keep the street alive, promote diversity in provision and create jobs. 3. *Some public say in what gets chosen*. 4 proposals could be put to the public per shop, which would be an important factor in which gets chosen. (We could host this on sgr.org) 4. *The council doesn't muck about*. They allocate an officer, as an account manager, to push this through. They commit to a public deadline and get it done. Where will this plan go wrong?

Arkady · July 2010

Andy for Mayor.

Emma · July 2010

@ andy - if executed properly, the "start-up" side of the plan looks good, it's just whether what people say they want is actually the same as what people will spend their money on. Woodys is a case in point - people say they want local independent shops to take on the might of eg Tesco and Sainsburys but we're all totally relieved Woodys is clearing off and making way for a properly run supermarket. Now this might also be because independent doesn't implicitly mean better run, better customer service, better attention to detail but I'm not sure how you'd be able to predict something like that upfront either.

JoeV · July 2010

1. Lifts would be nice but more importantly open and extend the second tunnel so it connects the Seven Sisters side to the SGR side. This might alleviate crowding during the rushes.

2. Er . . . I thought Stroud Green already had a ‘green’. I could be wrong but I thought it’s called Finsbury Park.

Of course everyone is for more green space but given that the walls and plantings on the corner of SGR and UPT are not maintained to a good condition now I’m not sure the idea of enlarging it into a ‘green’ makes sense unless a ‘big society’ association is created and funded to maintain it and maybe organise some small events so it just doesn’t become another place to sit and drink beer.

3. Agree with Andy -- not a bad idea but hasn’t SG.com replaced the need?

4. Agree with Andy -- what about local pubs, churches or schools?

5. More communication and cooperation is always welcome.

And to add to the list:
6. Encourage people to tidy up their front gardens. Would it hurt to pull a weed or pick up a crisp bag when it’s on your doorstep? (By the way Woodstock Road has some of the worst offenders.)

7. Plant more street trees.

8. In a perfect world . . . have TFL enforce a strict policy wherein people reading the paper, texting or are otherwise occupied by tasks other then entering or exiting the FP station are beaten to a bloody pulp about the face and neck. . . oh and loved-up couples walking had-in-hand should be slapped silly and reminded it’s the bloody Tube, not Noah’s ark.

@Arkady – supposedly plans were afoot at one time to put the bus station on SGR between Perth and Ennis Roads and this was blocked by residents.

miss annie · July 2010

@Emma

Woody's was an extremely badly run local business but your point hits the nail on the head.

People do always bang on about how they want small local businesses and a varied range of shops but the likes of Home close down because people don't spend money locally. Most people, myself included, are quite lazy and want to get everything in one place rather than trawling the local places. Or they sit on their bums and shop from the internet.

If you go to Crouch End you can witness the laziness of people buying fruit, veg, fish and baked goods in Waitrose when they have Dunns Bakery, a tip top fishmongers and a really fabulous greengrocers (Clocktower - currently stocking the juiciest cherries ever!) within steps of them. They just can't be bothered to walk round.

It beggars belief, it really does.

miss annie · July 2010

@Joe V
Point 8 should be made into law immediately.

becky · July 2010

It would be interesting to know who owns every building on SGR. Perhaps someone could find out and annotate a google maps for us?

andy · July 2010

Totally agree about what people say they want and what people actually do. But if this plan was run properly you could attract people with successful small business looking for a second venue, or people thinking about opening elsewhere or people looking to take the plunge but nervous about the banks. Or people running small businesses who could step into bigger premises if the costs were right. And if was done across, say 4 shops, then you could change the vibe of the street. Lots of the empty shop programmes are really short term 'pop-up' deals. This could look to create a spine of sustainable, long term independent businesses. I don't think we could guarantee success, but I do think we could lower the cost of failing.

commissar17 · July 2010

Becky. EXCELLENT idea to find out about who owns what along Stroud Green Road and then let everyone else know. WRA might have some contacts who could start work on this, but multiple-property owners, developers and speculators (being somewhat lower down the evolutionary chain than actual human beings) don't seem to have yet developed the language skills necessary to divulge information about their nefarious goings-on. Or perhaps they just don't WANT to.

twinspark · July 2010

The council do have details of all owners of property on SGR. They should spend time chasing them on matters such as proper provision for waste disposal by any tennats of the flats above. e.g above shops and Karmenz/K1 etc. on top section of SGR to junction with Stapleton Hall Rd. - many of these are accessed from a rear alley and a lot of rubbish just gets chucked by lampost adjacent to side door of The Mind Shop, a lot just gets put on SGR too because tenants have no proper arrangement. Fortunately the bin men take most of this stuff away but over the years a habit had formed for dumping old furniture and at that junction of SGR/SHR.
[ I challenged someone doing this and he said 'it's a collection spot for old stuff and the council collect it every weekend" - !!! I corrected this urban myth and helped him put the sofa back into his hatchback]

David · July 2010

My local cupcake bike workshop could happen after all. Well, at least for 6 months 'til the free-rent period ends. I think we should leave the loved up couples alone and take a chill pill.

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graeme · July 2010

Oatcakes, shurely?

adamski122 · July 2010

lifts are a great idea for older residents and Transport for London should have done this year ago... shame on them and Islington Council for not making more of a fuss. prob if we all wrote emails to TFL and annoyed them enough collectively something may happen sonner than it may happen.

Def agree we need a little pocket park.... if you live in a little flat with nor garden its either a walk to Finsbury Park or nought! It would be nice to have a small space to sit down and read the paper in on a sunny day...

community centre is not really feasible in this climate i.e no money at all. But we have all these community spaces that are empty most of the time. People like Father David who is the Priest at St Melitus would prob let any friendly soul use the church's community space if they asked... i am sure there are lots of spaces like this dotted about the area, what facility managers and community groups need to do is to work together to 'sweat' these assets more effectively rather than leaving them empty after 5pm e.g. local schools.

Councillor co-operation - Islington councillors seem to be a bit more responsive now they are running the Council so if we all emailed them from both sides to run such a group something might happen... from working with local govt what we really need is the officers in the council meeting to discuss this rather than just the politicians - prob save both Councils money too... maybe we could have a unified team stroud green that looked after street services for both sides of the area

commissar17 · July 2010

Adamski122. Thanks for your ideas. More stuff to pass on at the next WRA meeting. You're right about Fr David -- he used to let us use the church hall for anti-war meetings in the early days of the Iraq occupation.

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