Urgent - Awful Development at 64-68 Stapleton Hall Road!

MazzyJ70 · August 2010

There was a small planning notice attached to the railing yesterday but hardly obvious to anyone not specifically looking for it.

nick_m I'm sure the Victoriana is 'faux' as opposed to fake. This probably makes it acceptable in some circles...

Rona · August 2010

I am on the conservation area advisory committee and I would urge people to submit comments online. The site is sometimes down but was working last night. That way it will be seen by the planners.

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=216444

Wer're not in favour of Victorian Pastiche (faux Victorian) either and would rather see good modern design as someone rightly points out is acceptable in Islington.

Arkady - what horrible monstrosity opposite this proposed development are you referring to? Is that the Swiss chalet yellow development!! Agreed it is awful - it is also non compliant and we've drawn this to the attention of the planners several months ago but have yet to get a response that they've actually gone out and looked at it!!

Arkady · August 2010

@Rona – yes, it’s the ‘chalet’ that I referred to. Criminally bad. Keep us informed – it deserves a wrecking ball. @Delaware – yes, it is a different scale, though I’m not sure that’s inherently problematic. Let me summarise my thoughts on this as briefly as I can (I’m aware I’m bad at that). In my view, in a conservation area like Stroud Green ideally any new build should have an exterior exactly almost exactly matching the surrounding Victorian buildings. I am all for modernist architecture, but while there are many excellent examples of individual modernist buildings there are as yet few examples of quality modernist streetscapes, and it is very rare indeed for a modernist addition to a classical streetscape to look like anything other than a hideous juxtaposition. Can we think of any good examples in Stroud Green? Nothing springs to mind. However, the costs involved in replicating Victorian design precisely are usually prohibitive these days, plus the high Victorian ceilings are energy inefficient as well as inefficient use of space. Thus the proposed 3-4 story building being the same height as the neighbouring two-story. Call it ‘fake’ or ‘faux’ Victoriana if you will, but I think that new builds in classical streetscapes must closely follow the scale, building materials and classical features (in terms of design features and decoration – no blank facades) of their neighbours. There is a lot to be said for uniformity in a classical streetscape. This design appears – as far as we can tell from the line drawings and crap render – to achieve that. I don’t buy the argument about proximity to the pavement (there will be more space than currently overall, and it’s no different to the shops opposite). Nor do I think it’s the wrong scale – if anything its corner position would justify it being a little taller. Again – that’s a standard feature in Victorian street corners, and this is rather a special and prominent corner deserving decent massing. The only objection I have left – apart from the lack of a decent render to help us judge the finishes – is that I’m not overly keen on some aspects of the façade proportions. But unlike the above criteria, which have at least tenuous links to objectivity or established standards, that’s just my aesthetic judgment. I don’t think it would be fair to object on those grounds. And again, it beats the hell out of the previous (successful) application.

mikecabic · August 2010

I'm with Arkady on this one. having moved to SG 4 months ago, the cottages instantly struck me as awkward and give that whole corner a really odd feel.

While the proposal may not be perfect (I also agree that the building could be taller), its not bad. Would be good to see more detail about its external appearance, but the practice has previously won a RIBA London award and there are several interesting example projects on their website, all with sympathetic finishes.

graeme · August 2010

I dislike the static-caravan type doorstep on that yellow chalet. The idea that someone spent every last penny on that place then ran out of cash before they could afford some steps is particularly tragic.

ps, it's almost the 'odd' feel of that corner that makes it fit in. It's all a bit time-warpy round there.

sincers · August 2010

I sit next to the Sunday Times Architecture Critic and editor of the RIBA journal, who is also a resident on Nelson Road. I've asked him to comment on the proposed plans by way of "informed judgement". I quote directly from his email: "Those ground-floor intersecting arches are horribly inept and don't reflect the character of the area despite what the architect might say. There's nothing like them in the neighbourhood, and they make the whole building look very unbalanced. As a general rule, you don't wrap an arcade round the outside of a corner for this reason. Apparently he's not a bad architect - I don't know his work, but Carlos does - but this scheme looks badly unresolved, very messy on what is visually a key junction. It's right on axis with Ferme Park Road as it turns the corner, so what's built here is very prominent indeed. Beyond that, I don't think the street ought to be extended at high level in this way. The existing low building provides a bit of variety while the lodge cottage on the corner is a low-key local landmark. Trouble is, I see there's an existing planning permission for two houses on this site. So if this one is turned down, they'll probably build the earlier scheme." He too isn't opposed to the development of the site. His view is that it looks like its designed to get through planning but it doesn't represent quality, which is what we should expect from a focal plot. At least the 'chalet' with its fire-escape steps is relatively out of the way...unless you live up SHR.

Arkady · August 2010

"Beyond that, I don't think the street ought to be extended at high level in this way. The existing low building provides a bit of variety while the lodge cottage on the corner is a low-key local landmark." Low key local landmark! That craphole cottage? I profoundly disagree with that judgement, professional critic or not. And his opinion contradicts over 200 years of classical streetscaping guidelines. If the horrible, mediocre earlier scheme is built because of objections to this one I shall weep. It leaves the billboard intact for one thing!

Arkady · August 2010

Use Google Street View to look at the corner of Ferme Park Road and Weston Park. Check out Ferme Park Mansions. Now there's a beauty - an end of terrace corner building matching its neighbours while adding presence to the corner through through additional height and detailing. Now that's what I'm talking about!

sincers · August 2010

I don't necessarily agree with said critic's sentiments in all cases, but I do think the white building has some charm. What worries me is the quality of the render. Its as if they're trying to hide how bad the final finish might be. It looks like a badly designed student digs to me. I would be interested to hear the thoughts of residents who live in the house next door. FP Mansions is impressive, and it would be great to get something of that quality. I'm no architect, but those drawings don't suggest anything near that standard of design.

Arkady · August 2010

Agreed. I wonder if we can extract a better render from the architects?

graeme · August 2010

Arkady's dream...

<img src="http://i37.tinypic.com/eakta1.jpg"></img>

[edit: this pic in no way reflects my thoughts on the existing buildings - I quite like them and think the design for the new building unbalances the unusual homely feel of that corner.]

sincers · August 2010

excellent - lol

Arkady · August 2010

Bwoohahaha! Thanks Graeme. A

Rona · August 2010

The architect of 64-68 SHR has asked to meet the Conservation Committee next week (we're just a local residents' group)! Any objections if I suggest he looks at this website because I think the comments here are really useful. Thank you SG.org!

sincers · August 2010

Can you ask them to incorporate Godzilla into their design?

Arkady · August 2010

Hi Rona - how does one get on the committee?

j · August 2010

That new design is a monstrosity. Those weird white arches (see DesignStatement.pdf) look as if something's taken a huge bite out of it like some kind of cartoon apple.

Does this being some kind of 'conservation' area mean anything at all if rubbish like this can even be up for consideration?

Whether this thing gets allowed in the end or not, whoever came up with those designs should be ashamed of themselves.

Ali · August 2010

<http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/content/haringey/hornseyjournal/news/story.aspx?brand=HCEJOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newshcej&itemid=WeED18 Aug 2010 16:24:54:270>

sincers · August 2010

@Arkady, looks like Helen Riley has pipped you to the post in commenting on the "pavement squeeze". Although the whole article looks like its been copied and pasted from this thread, so in general it seems to reflect our sentiments - notwithstanding the raging "pavement squeeze" debate. And they've neglected to comment on Godzilla's thoughts on the current building.

graeme · August 2010

miss annie · August 2010

@Arkady
Have you considered wearing a Godzilla outfit instead of the trilby?

Arkady · August 2010

Crap article. Regurgitates a misunderstanding. Can't help but love the Godzilla pictures. A

val · August 2010

Lots of interesting comments on this planned development. I'll be glad to see removal of characterless ground floor structure and billboard. Arches seem inappropriate here. I, too, would like to see a Victorian-style improvement to the corner. But I notice that so far very few people have actually appealed against the plans. See Haringey Planning Applications HGY/2010/1246.

Arkady · January 2015

Did anyone else see this?<div><br>http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/property/try_before_you_buy_trialling_a_new_build_family_home_in_stroud_green_1_3908910<br><br>Apparently you can 'try before you buy' in this building - which suggests to me that they are having trouble selling the flats.<br></div>

Arkady · January 2015

And I LOVE that roof terrace.

graeme · January 2015

<div>Have to laugh at those developers. I wrote an objection on the planning portal, which I guess captures my address. Last year I got a letter from the developer, inviting me to visit to "see if I've changed my mind", in case I was interested in buying it... Hope the council are happy with erm... not much more council tax from empty properties, and a shittier looking area? </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Also, </div>In case anyone wondered what went on behind the massive hedge at the end of Lancaster Road, across from the aforementioned monstrosity, I stumbled over this, for nosey parkers everywhere...<div><br></div><div>http://www.homebuilding.co.uk/completedprojects/folded-house<br></div><div><br></div>;

Arkady · January 2015

Ha! That development has caused so much controversy.

Luirette · January 2015

Ha! Those houses have been on the market for ages. I can see why they're not selling. Paying over £1m for a funny open plan layout right by a railway line, may not be everybody's cup of tea.

miss annie · January 2015

My friend looked at these. She has a toddler and was concerned that there are so many stairs and bannisters and railings are too low all around the property. When the nipper is a couple of years older he'll easily be able to hop over them. Also, when you are in the house looking out, they seem easy to access from the railway line. She had concerns about that funny old corner too. I haven't been in but my sister lives in a townhouse and a townhouse this ain't.

Ali · January 2015

<p>It was open on the open house day so had a look.</p><p>I think the developer lives there and has designed it to work in a particular way.</p><p> </p><p>I guess his challenge is to find someone who will pay £1m to live in a simlar style.</p><p> </p><p>I though some of the finnishes were not that great and bit "cheap" inside</p><p> </p><p>The architect was an intertesting chat I think his original concept got changed a lot by the client</p>

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Urgent - Awful Development at 64-68 Stapleton Hall Road!

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