Tales of SGR from the 60's

<div>I have written this for those of you who have moved to the area in the last 35-40 years. Here are my recollections of the shops, business and going on’s in Stroud Green Road during the swinging 60’s. In order to post I have to break this down into 7 segments for 1 post, sorry.<br><br></div> In Part 1 I’ll go from N-S, on the west side (Islington) and tomorrow S-N on the East. Whereas I have no intention or recollection of naming all the shops it will give an idea of the demographics of the area and some history (hopefully stuff that is not common knowledge). Often I can only remember what the shops sold and so will I am not able to give exact names. I have also added some local facts just to add a bit of spice, as they say. It is also worth mentioning that until 1965 we on the East Side of the road were not Londoners, as the Islington side, but County of Middlesex and with that came a touch of snobbery. In those days despite schools being nearer to where you lived, you could only go to a school in your Borough. Therefore although St Aloysius would have been fairly close to where I lived and suited us fine, I was forced to travel to Musewell Hill to attend the grammar school. FYI the kids in my block of flats just about tolerated a GS, so snobby Stationers would have equated to a modern day ‘excommunication!’ <br><div><br></div>
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  • edited July 2014
    Although technically not in SGR I will start my journey at around number 9 Crouch Hill, by the bus stop and where I caught the 212 (now W7?) to MH. Next to the bus stop stood a fine toys and model shop where you could by an Airfix model of a Lancaster bomber, a Triang Train set and attachments, Corgi toy cars, Swoppet’s a type of toy soldiers (they did 3 lines I can remember, though they did others; War of the Rosses, Union and Confederates, and Napoleonic War.) Between the toy shop and the diary was a solicitors (I am fairly sure the fine white building had 1862 above the door). On the corner of Hanley and Crouch Hill stood as it does today the diary. However I don’t know if this is commonly known but originally it was the Frien Manor Dairy and was supplied by cows grazing at a farm in Frien Barnet. <br><br><div> Just around the corner where a few shops briefly continued on the north side of Hanley Rd was a Fish and Chip shop. In the 60’s it was not so good but improved with new owners in the 70’s. Crossing the road was where the library stood (and a decent one at that). This is where coming from the other side of the road in Middlesex made things it a little tricky. To become a member as a child we had to get our school teacher to sign our application form and along with a parent attendance and proof that the library was nearer to where we lived than the one at the end of Stapleton Hall Rd, you would get a card. A fact about this library that may not be known and for which I was reminded of by watching ‘The King in the Car Park’ a documentary about the discovery of Richard III body, was that this library was where the Richard III Society met and as a early teenager I remember attending a very interesting lecture on why R 3 had not ordered the murder of the Princes in the Tower.<br><br></div><div> Coming back into Stroud Green Road, on the corner with Hanley Rd stood a Barclays Bank, though originally it was the London and South West Bank Ltd. At numbers 175, 177 & 179 stood Halls, originally a draper’s shop that evolved to stock fine furniture in the 70’s. Last time I visited it was a Sainsbury’s. Not far on stood John Seward the undertaker. Though in my day it occupied a double fronted shop. Roughly opposite Albert Rd stood Sandiland’s an electrical equipment store and lighting. I believe that in 1912 there was a shop of the same name that sold something else so either the original family changed tack or the owners in the 60’s kept the name. <br></div>
  • edited July 2014
    Those of you that arrived in the early 80’s will remember Radio Taxis who ran their main hub from an office a little bit further on. After that about equally between where Lorne / Albert join SGR and staying on the Islington side stood Boud’s (in the 50’s I think it was Batemans). This was the main sweet shop, cigarettes and toys. More importantly it was the shop where we could by our plastic footballs that came in 3 types. Cheap red plastic ball that were too light and burst very easy (really designed for under 9’s), but on occasions the only ones we could afford. Then there was the inflatable red Fido’s which were much heavier and lasted unless they hit a nail or glass. When one burst we would keep it because my mum was an expert at cutting off a piece and moulding it over a recently punctured one using a heated knife (that would normally give us an extra 3-4 weeks). Lastly and for special when someone received money from a relative for Xmas or a birthday were, Mitre Mould Masters, which were thick plastic but actually like playing with a real football and were bril-liant on the red gravel pictures up on the elevated FP plateau. Boud’s also sold Jublly’s in summer; frozen blocks flavoured water (most likely full of sugar!) Next came a pawn shop, which was pretty busy on Monday’s and Tuesdays as people made deposits and open late on Fridays as people got their stuff back for the weekend! Next came Randall’s the shoe shop.<div><br>Number 141 & 143 SGR was where the Co-Operative supermarket lived and in which for a small time (when still at school I worked on Friday evenings and Saturday’s stocking shelves). One of the ladies who worked there was my best friend’s mum (a friend who sadly now is dec’d) however I am still in touch with and she now lives in sheltered housing in Pot-ters Bar). @ # 139 stood the Midland Bank. @ # 137 was Boots the chemist. (Funny note: who as a teenage you had to be careful because if they saw you buying contraceptives they would tell your mums and the reason why you would go to the one opposite the clock tower in CE!)<br><br>Where the White Lion of Mortimer stands stood a car show room, though they were known to carry pretty dodgy vehicles. Opposite Marquis Rd and next to the car showroom in a double fronted shop with two separate entrances stood David Greigs. They were a quality grocery chain started by a Scottish family from Hornsey and the maid challenger to Sainsbury’s before they became mega. On the right stood the grocery, supplying fresh fruit, vegetables, deli and tinned foods. On the left (next door) was where their butchers stood and where my mum worked part time. I can still remember the fantastic ham off the bone that you can’t seem to buy anywhere these days. <br></div>
  • edited July 2014
    Turning into Tollington Park there was nothing on the nth side, so I shall start coming back from Everleigh St. @ # 148 was the most important shop in SG to any teenager, this was the record shop and where after school we would rush with our pocket money on Friday nights to buy the latest release from the Beatles, Byrds, Rolling Stones, Kinks (our local band from MH) etc. Next to the record shop @ # 150 was a music shop that sold sheet music, small organs, guitars and recorders. @ #152 with its funny entrance door that still stands was the cheap ‘fetch and carry shop’ (new brooms, buckets, plastic items). The Park Tavern on the corner of Charteris Rd always was the Park and its clientele normally much older ‘condi-tioned drinkers’ but never any trouble and at # 168 was a newsagents, which you used if cutting down CR towards the station.<br>
  • edited July 2014
    For some reason I can’t remember many of the others shops until we came to Elkins which stood on the corner of SG/TP. Elkins (once Thomas Swann’s) was also the finest clothes, umbrella and hosiery shop in the district until you got to Jones Brothers in Nags Head (also now a Sainsbury’s). This is where we bought our school blazers and uniform and it was also where unless you went to Duval’s in Haringey Village that you ordered your football kit. Amazingly they could get all teams and at first had a Wolves kit and then a Burnley when I had out grown the Wolves one. Turning back into SGR and next to Elkins was a cigarette kiosk which was open between 7.30 am and 6pm. Then came the jewellers and @ #77 was the wet fish shop. There you could buy fresh fish all days except obviously Sundays and Mondays (not fresh deliveries). In addition at the back of the shop between 11am and 5pm they also sold the best fish and chips in the area. Next came a fruit & veggie shop and @ #73 was a Radio Rentals shop where you rented a TV set (that way if they broke- which invariably they did in a flat full of kids, you could get a new one within the hour! Service in those days meant something. Many poorer families also rented washing machines and cookers from RR.<div><br>Atherstone Mews has seen major changes in its day. Originally it was for people to keep their horses in and after a while where shop keepers kept their cars in my days. On its corner with SGR stood an electrical good shop where they sold record players, radio’s, TV’s, radio-grams etc. This is where when I was at the great age of 11 my mum and dad bought me a transistor radio for which I felt rich and that I still have and still works! A year later they bought me my Elizabethan – Garrard deck record player. Mine was blue (see below) which should give you all a laugh as it was state of the art in 1964!<br><br><br> the other side of Athestone Mews was in my day a bus stop (210, 212 & 213). A couple of shops along there was butchers and a cheap clothes shop. Between there and # 55, stood a triple fronted shop with blocked out glass and machine operators made cheap clothes. @ # 55 was Brown’s Brothers a double fronted ironmongers and tool shop that had been there for 50 years prior to us moving to SG.<br></div>
  • edited July 2014
    <div>Opposite the Edwardian houses between Ennis and Perth lay another green grocer, a chemist and a exotic food importer / later a West Indian food specialist shop in double fronted property. On the corner of Lennox stood the Earl of Essex pub. Pretty infamous in its day and if you wanted to buy something that fell off the back of a truck…this was the place to go. <br>Now for another place that has changed a great deal. Between Lennox Rd and Wells Terrace stood a giant coal yard (it had been there since the 19th century). About 10 yards down from Lennox Rd there was a shop that sold heating oil for paraffin burners and coal / coke for those who could not afford a regular delivery from the coal man. I am sure it was called Parry’s. Wells Terrace then as now was the bus station on one half and the other led to Fontill Rd ‘where few dread to walk!’<br><br>Passing under the bridge between where the trains run from Kings X to the north was an-other very notorious place that our parents sternly warned us about keeping away from. There stood an above ground public toilet (you can still see where it once stood between the two main bridges where now the white tiling stands against the wall). Mainly nobody bothered you, however sometime coming back from the pictures at the Astoria or Nags Head and you were in dire need you had to pop inside! “Wanna earn 2/6d or s 5s’ some-times a dark figure would approach out of the gloom and ask? “***k off I tell my dad”, normally did the trick, although sadly many of us knew of boys from really poor families who earn’t a bob or 2! We did not think of them as dirty or bad, just that was the way things were and often when they came back they would share chips that they bought with the proceeds with the rest of us and often when they had not eaten that day themselves). Sorry if this is too blunt for some, I did ponder whether I should include this but decided that I would because that is what SG was like back then. A few middle class families, the majority of us from working class homes and as many on poverty line as from the middle.<br><br>The triangle from the bus station is where the 236 and 96 used to stop opposite the Silver Bullet. In the 60’s it was known as an alco’s pub and was always dire. Just up from the corner of SGR and Seven Sisters and above a shop was the only good dentist called Fingaurd’s. Here the dentist gassed you to sleep, did what he had to do and let you read up to date comics whilst you waited! He was also very good because my fillings lasted a very long time.<br><br></div><div>Just a quick description of that part of FP (between St Thomas Rd and Blackstock Rd in those days). Around where the Tesco express is was the Wimpy Bar! A predecessor of McDonalds, they were created by Joe Lyons as Britain’s answer to the dinner/coffee bars of America. Here they had juke boxes that you could access from a slot on the wall by your table and where most of us took our first dates when 13/14 thinking we were all grown up. Previously it had been a greasy spoon café where Mods and Rockers would fight.<br></div>
  • edited July 2014
    Finally a quick mention of St Thomas’s St, before I sign off for today. It was here where Rock Street joined that Alex James the famous Arsenal footballer maintained a tobacconist for years.<br><br>Hope this is of interest. WCB<br>
  • edited July 2014
    Lots I had no idea about - the dodgy public conveniences for one.  Also I had no idea that TESCO building was post 1980. Would really love to see a picture of the buildings that were there before.<div><br></div><div>@WCB - Thanks for you patience trying to get this long post up.  I've taken the liberty of reformatting it so that your paragraph breaks show properly and the font is consistent - that was the site's fault rather than yours.</div>
  • Oh this is fantastic.
  • That is absolutely brilliant WiltshireCourtBoy. Thanks so much for sharing and taking the time to post it all.
  • edited December 2017
  • Wow. Thank you. Do you remember Hornsey Road as well?
  • This is wonderful.  But how do you remember all this stuff - or do you have some sort of archive.l  I ask because I can't remember shops which used to be there a week after they've been replaced.  
  • Thanks WC Boy for the 60s information. An uncle of mine told me of the loo but that was common practice in 60s London.  Dark rooms and gay rights weren't that established then.  My dad and mum have told me about the various cinemas and concert venues and it's lovely to hear more detail.  Thank you.
  • @ G. Joe.  Joe Orton loved the cottages as did more Joe Meek who lived a stones away on the Holloway road.  I tend to prefer Meek's creations.
  • <p>So many questions this is really great and thanks for the feed back. First munwin, its mainly my memory, but I did live in SG from 1960-80 and then again 1986-93 and have always regarded the place as my home town. Living in Tasmania also gives you time to reflect because as you age the past becomes as important to you as the future. kreuzzkav/Gardiner Joe. Joe Orton also used the Shaftsbury on Thursday nights. Other notorious sites were the toilets beneath the Clock Tower, the toilets at the back of Highgate Station and the bushes to the right in FP if you enter via Manor House.Mirandola, I do remember walking up and down HR and going swimming in the pool there (even in the 60's some poorer families would still go there for their weekly bath) and I remember Montem School, but little else. I'll post the other side of the road tonight. In the future I was going to right a piece on the inter-reaction and competition between the various estates? I would also like to explain that after the war people were happy and took pride in the new homes. Life there was as far removed from what we see in council estates today as you can imagine. So let me know if you think this might interest you. </p><p><br></p>
  • Do you remember the firebombing fights between Greeks and Turks along Seven Sisters Rd? A former fireman, based here in the 70s and 80s, was telling me about it recently. Apart from the clothing/drapers shops, sounds like the selection of shops was very similar back then. @WiltshireCourtBoy even Fonthill Rd is changing now, there's a very good Italian restaurant and even a snazzy estate agent. I think there are one or two Wimpys left in London, although my favourite one closed last year.
  • <p>Hi miss annie, The strange thing with that part of Haringey Village was that up until the end of the 60's it was a vibrant area with a cosmopolitan population though many were Greek, then suddenly there was trouble. I think though unlike the recent problems with the Albanians which are gang and drug orientated, this coincided with Turkey invading Cyprus in 1974. I have actually included a piece on SG 60's demography in todays post when I have edit what I have written today. Tks for interest WCB</p><p><br></p>
  • edited July 2014
    <div>@WCB - Just a minor tweak, the buildings on SGR were/are almost all Victorian, rather than Edwardian.<br><br>Also, back to the subject of Tesco. I've been speaking to Quentin Pickard, the chairman of the local Conservation Area Advisory Committee. He's also uncertain as to when the original Victorian buildings were demolished, but that the Tesco building was there as a shell when he arrived in the late 70s - the developer had gone bust. He thinks that Tesco took it over and finished the building in 1980, give or take.<br><br>That stretch of the Stroud Green Road is something of a gap in terms of historical and photographic information! Any clues welcome. The closest I've come is this:<br><br><img src="http://www.exciting.org.uk/postcards/gsmith/gs13/gs1305.jpg"><br><br>Which I'm pretty sure is the original view of <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.568604,-0.110628,3a,75y,311.66h,95.39t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sL-Vy3xqGwwLZ4suDofka0w!2e0">this </a>(corrections welcome).<br></div><div style="font-family: arial; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"><br></div>
  • Ark<br><br>108 SGR seems to be at Osbourne Road  on Google maps  while your link is Tollington ?<br>
  • edited July 2014
    <div>Mmm, I don't think so. 106 SGR is the Nandos building (and presumably its pre-Luftwaffe predecessor!). So 108 SGR (as pictured above) would have been on the other side of Upper Tollington, near where Charter Court (Vagabond) is now.<br><br>The corner of Osborne and SGR is 120-something. <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.569008,-0.111499,3a,75y,323.19h,85.31t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s5bj_W8A3ndM-WjGan3uZKw!2e0">And the view doesn't match</a> - the roofs are different.<br></div>
  • <p>Arkady, if the history guy says Tesco's was only opened in 1980 and I went overseas then, well the houses could have been demolished in the late 70's which could put me out by a year, which I'll settle for. It is just that I could never remember a Tesco's being there until I returned in 86. On the Edwardian / Victorian thanks. On photo's I will send you some to post for viewers as I don not think the one posted is opposite Marquis Rd (I think its Woodstock, opposite Lennox?) However I have sent you one on where the Tesco's and White Lion are c abt 1910.</p><p>Ali and Arkady, agree with A. FYI Google maps are often wrong. Sometimes when I was writing this I used google live view map and looked at the shop which said 1 number and google maps above showed another. If I do that for where I live now it comes up 3 miles away! I'll explain how I have done this, often I have used the numbering used when the street was being developed  basically the 1912 Old Ordnance Map. I know where the shops were, but obviously I can not remember the street numbers without help. Re the Osborne Tavern, perhaps people are not aware but the Nandos stands on the site of the one built in the 70's but is not the building that was there in the 60's that actually stood further down UTP and a little back. It had a big pavement outside and in summer it had tables outside (see todays posting). Kings definitely used to be 104 and I have a nice story on that building for today</p><p><br></p>
  • Mmm, it's not Lennox/Woodstock, <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.566825,-0.107815,3a,75y,330.84h,94.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svKxa4qPF34tzotdMq1V2Hw!2e0">which looks like this</a> - and the sign says 108 Stroud Green Road, right?
  • <p>On a separate note some of you may like to look through this I found its a murder trial from 1910 bout someone who was murdered for a great deal of money and who lived in Tollington Park Rd N4. Its long but its fascinating.</p><p><a href="http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks14/1400151h-images/1400151h-01.html">http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks14/1400151h-images/1400151h-01.html</a></p><p><br></p>;
  • <font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">in Part 2 I am travelling from S to N on the East Side</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Re tracing my journey back up Stroud Green Road, I shall diverse a little, this time starting at the bus stop for the 29 bus by the Finsbury Park entrance.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Where the Lidel store now stand used to be a Pram and Bicycle shop of the highest quality, called City Prams. Next was a Top Rank bingo hall that had once been a theatre/picture house called Pykes Theatre. Next door was a newsagent’s/ tobacconist and next to this was a pawnbrokers. The ‘12 pins’ pub for almost a hundred years was the Finsbury Park Tavern and often had a varying clientele mainly from the Park visitors or traders of Blackstock Rd. Between the FP Tavern and the Bowling Alley, stood a factory that made metal things. Often you would hear someone complaining that they had picked up a puncture from a discarded piece of metal working that somehow had migrated to the roadway. The Bowling Alley had a very colourful past and although in the late sixties it was a bowling alley to my knowledge it has been, a cinema, a snooker hall, a boxing venue and often took events that were uneconomical to hold in Haringey Arena*. </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
  • <font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">*For those that do not know, where the Tesco’s stands at the bottom of Endymion Rd/SS (next to the station), once stood Haringey Arena and Haringey Stadium. Haringey Arena held world championship boxing, Bruce Woodcock fought Lee Savold in Dec 1948 there and was the Olympic venue for basketball in 1948. In addition home of the Haringey Pacers ice hockey team (and where once as a child I saw the Toronto Maple Leafs play an exhibition match). Haringey Stadium held Speedway, dog racing and in the 60’s stock car racing. In fact the only time I ever went to this stadium was the night England won the World Cup and almost all of us went just because we wanted to celebrate with others, it was an unreal night.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Opposite Wells Terrace (abt # 13 SG Rd) stood for years a small shack (at one time a taxi office) but in the 60’s it was the coal office. Perhaps what I should explain was that FP became the main coal distribution point for Nth Ldn and the trains. In fact even in my time Drayton Park opposite the Stevens ink factory held tons of coal.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Whilst I’m here what I forgot to mention yesterday that between Wells and Lennox on the west side stood a small cinema the Scala but always remained derelict in my days. </font></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Back on the east side and the first row of real buildings to Woodstock Road was the Hornsey Weights and Measure Office, an estate agents, a café and an undertaker.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
  • edited July 2014
    <font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Perhaps arriving at Woodstock Rd it may be of interest to some of you to explain how SG was territorially split up by the late 60’s and into 4 main groups which basically controlled the area. Sociologically speaking that is to say and just like many towns and places, it was divided along the lines of historical, ethnic and economic boundaries.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Group 1 ran from Fonthill Rd via Seven Sisters, and turned up into up to SGR until Tollington Park. There it ran back to Fonthill and back down to SS. This area was controlled by the gangs of Six Acre Estate and surrounding streets (the old Campbell Bunk) area or St Anne’s Parish, Holloway.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Group 2 evolved as FP saw many demographic changes in the 60’s. This was especially true of the rectangle around Brownwood Rd, Queens Drive / Wilberforce area and Blackstock Rd. During this time <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>semi derelict housing were rented out by greedy landlords to peoples freshly arrived from the Caribbean. In truth many suffered racial discrimination at a level hard to believe as houses often had signs “For Rent…no blacks” By the late 60’s the same ethnic group now expanded and running out of housing migrated a little uo SGR and begun to dominate the Woodstock Rd / Perth Rd block. <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>As such and just as was occurring in the other three areas of SG, the teenage members also formed gangs and defined there territories. The early 70’s saw many racial clashes in FP and SG.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">The area between the North side of Tollington Park / East side of Horsey Rd & south half of Hanley became something of a demilitarised zone.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Group 3 was made up of gangs from the Sparshot Flats estate that ran between Crouch Hill and Hanley Rd which expand to running up Crouch Hill to the Coleman Mansions Estate in Warlterville Rd is and then across to Hornsey Rise and back down Hanley Rd. </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Group 4, basically the one that I lived in, was made up mainly from the housing estates of Blackenberry, Wall Ct, Hutton Ct, Ronaldshay and Carlton Lodge (off Lancaster Rd). I have used the names of the major blocks but nevertheless this included all the blocks of flats within. This group controlled an area that ran up Upper Tollington Park Rd to Whiteman Rd and then until Haringey Station. Where it turned back across Mountview Rd (but did not include Chettle Ct) to Crouch Hill and then back down SGR to UTP. The only exclusion being the Blythwood Mansions that actually stood on the cnr of MT View Rd and CH. I believe it has since been demolished. However at the time they aligned with Coleman only because of its close proximity. The estate in Oakleigh Rd / SHR was very small and fell under Carlton or our estate for protection. </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
  • <font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">Having said all this it is worth mentioning that other than the occasional peer group thumping of chest within these groups, very little internal violence ever took place, the leaders were normally those best at sport not fighting? However having made this point about a lack of fighting within, each group would not openly tolerate a group or gang from another areas trespassing on ‘your patch’! These tensions were not eased by a share of schools either. Mainly because of the differences between catchment areas and boroughs lines. The majority of the kids in my group attended the secondary schools of either Bishopswood / Priory Vale / St David’s. Whereas many of the Sparshot / Coleman kids attended Tollington Park or Archway. The GS I went to mainly attract other kids from Hornsey / Highgate / MH, which was not the same and carried none of the threats.</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri"><font size="3">Unlike today the gang rivalries were not drug related but had mainly evolved from the old ‘rookery’ mentality of the 18</font><sup><font size="2">th</font></sup><font size="3"> and 19</font><sup><font size="2">th</font></sup><font size="3"> century and then the gang warfare of the late 50’s & 60’s (Ted’s & Beatniks, Mods & Rockers etc.). There were also other conflicts for example groups 1 & 3 were mortal enemies from the gang wars of the late 50’s that were related to neither and had initial evolved from the black market control that had continued through rationing until the middle of the 50’s . As for our gang (# 4) though by far the largest it was not economically driven. More one of self-preservation against gangs from 1 & 3! </font></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
  • <font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">On a personal not if this was not hard enough for me at the time, I also had cousins living on the Wedmore Estate (which is off Holloway Rd) and for which I held a ‘related to membership’. The Wedmore was inhabited by many families who had vacated the ‘Bunk’ at the end of the war and as such they had a ‘treaty’ of a kind with the Seven Acres Gang. Basically if I was travelling through Fonthil Rd territory on my own normally I would be left alone, however if I was with a neighbourhood friend then they would be attacked and made my position impossible! <span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>Regardless of how difficult this was it was far preferable to meeting a gang from the Coleman estate as they were deadly enemies of the Wedlock Estate and making me double the target. I explain this because other kids I knew had other relationships in the other gangs making for 1 confused state of events! </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3">A brief bit of social local history I added and hope you like because I can write more on this lines if interested?</font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Calibri" size="3"> </font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
  • Just brilliant.  Did you have a 'uniform'?  I'm guessing mod.
  • <font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><br></p><font face="Calibri"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><br></p><font size="3"><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Times New Roman"> <br></font></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;">Going back to our journey I shall continue up SGR from Woodstock to Ennis. There was a news agents 2 shops from the cnr and then the main Fish and Chip shop that everyone used called Morray’s. Run by a Greek Cypriot family, we always stopped when coming home from a late night football match. A few shops down was a locksmith and on the Cnr of Ennis a greengrocer. Between Ennis and Perth was only residential houses.</p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Times New Roman"> <br></font></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"> </p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Times New Roman"> <br></font></p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 8pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;">Though I must have passed them a million times, I can remember very little of the first few shops going north of Perth. I subconsciously seem to remember, a ladies hairdresser and a florist, this was until we arrive at #88. Where stood a specialist shop that people came from miles around to shop. The double fronted shop which was painted white, specialised in photographic equipment. Not only for still cameras in which they mainly stocked film processing aides, but mainly for movie film cameras and such equipment. Film companies and cameramen from all over London would come here to buy specialities. They also customized cameras and tripods.</p><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><font face="Times New Roman"> <br></font></p></font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><br></p></font><p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-align: justify; mso-add-space: auto;"><br></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
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