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Patio doors / planning permission

JacksonJackson
in Local discussion
Hello everyone I'm after some advice if anyone can help me. We're lucky enough to have a little roof terrace out the back of our (top floor) flat on one of the terraced streets off Stroud Green Road. Basically I want to replace the crappy old single uPVC door that leads out onto the terrace with a pair of timber sliding patio doors. I thought this would be quite simple. However as I live inside the conservation area I'm told I need planning permission for the work, as it affects the fabric of the building. I am hopeful it would be successful, as loads of other properties on the street have patio doors out back (albeit on the ground floor level). Plus I would be replacing a plastic door with timber. However I've never had any dealings with planning apps etc before, and am finding the whole process a little confusing. I tried to go and speak to the Haringey Council planning people for some pre-application advice, but on arrival at the offices was informed they no longer do drop-in advice sessions (even though on their website it says they do). I then spoke to an architect that a friend recommended. However he said it was such a small job that it seemed OTT to employ his services for the best part of a grand (!) just to draw up a very simple plan for a set of patio doors. He suggested I "employ a local draughtsman" (?) or just draw up the plans myself. I was wondering if anyone has any experience of undertaking this type of project and whether they have any advice? In particular - Is it a really bad idea to draw your own plans for a planning application? - If it is a bad idea, who actually provides this service for such a simple project? - Do I also need to apply for separate permission under Building Control regs? Finally, and most importantly, can anyone recommend a good local firm who would carry out the work - ie supply and fit new timber patio doors? Obviously it would involve removal of bricks etc from an external wall. I'm therefore unsure whether I need a builder or a door/window firm. Any help much appreciated! Jack
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Comments

  • gardener-joegardener-joe
    edited December 2017
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  • dorothydorothy
    edited October 2016
    I replaced a single door with double doors in my kitchen a while ago, and I did my own drawings. It's better if you trace one from a previous application for a house on your street. There are masses of them on there going back decades so you're bound to find one which you can use. It's important for the scale as well. You need a few drawings of the different elevations. It's all a bit long winded for just a door or a window. It's quite satisfying submitting your own drawings though, and a good saving. You only need to consider building regs if it's a load bearing wall and you're going to put steels in etc. If so, you'll need the buildings reg person to come and have a look at and that's what you're paying for if you need to make a building regs application. They are very helpful, much more so than the planning people. It sounds like you just have the roof above you, but if there's an attic you might need advice. You might want advice about party wall agreements as well.
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  • vetskivetski
    I've usually found Haringey's planning/building regs people helpful when I've called them - maybe try that first? Also, if your new doors will be wider in total than the old door, you may need a new beam or steel above them, so do make sure you have the dimensions to hand when you phone so they can advise you properly.
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  • PapaPapa
    If you speak to a window company and get them round to measure up and do a quote, they will send someone round who will do drawings etc for the quote. They should be a very good start towards what you need for the planning application - and may even be able to do it for you. You are likely to only need very simple drawings but are likely to need a new beam / steel above the doors - although that is very simple work.
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  • mountpelephantmountpelephant
    hi . I replaced my patio double doors that open out on to the garden with sliding doors but I had the wall completely taken out so the doors could go all the way across. My experience was that my builders said this was a permitted development. I called haringey and emailed them and they said on both occasions, 'this sounds like a permitted development' but we cannot give you an official answer until you fill out the official forms online - which meant I had to pay a fee. I need a structural engineer anyway to check the wall and structure for a steal beam to go in and he provided drawings and said i'd need a certificate of lawfulness. He did the application for the council for me with his drawings and his fee cam to around £1000. The council fee was around £150-£200, and they approved the work and gave me a certificate of lawfulness saying planning not permitted, this is permitted development which they would clarify on the phone, until they got the application and money. Building regs were a different case. Again I paid the council £200 and they sent someone round to check the beam and structure was fine. He was there five minutes and said he'd come back on completion. A different guy came on completion, walked in took one look said it's fine and walked out. he was there less than a minute. Paperwork all signed off. Basically the council will not tell you over the phone or email. you are going to have to getting planning or certificate of lawfulness, building regs and pay the costs. It will give you peace of mind and in the long run if you sell it will save you a lot of hassle. My certificate took three months to come through as haringey is so busy. also part of conservation. good luck.
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  • gardener-joegardener-joe
    edited December 2017
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  • ArkadyArkady
    Like-for-like door/window replacement is permitted. But you can't replace them with another design or material without permission.
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  • PapaPapa
    edited October 2016
    There are [different permitted development rules](https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/21/flats_and_maisonettes/5 "different permitted development rules") for houses and flats - many people don't realise this. I don't know if this changed recently (when some changes were made) but permitted development allowed patio doors to be installed on a house but they required planning permission for a flat. In terms of building regs, checking whether there was structural work needed etc. our window guys did that all for us - but they were a firm sticking in UPVC patio doors. I'm guessing a firm doing wooden doors would do the same. I reckon if you get someone round for a no-obligation quote they will be able to tell you all this stuff properly and in detail.
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  • yanyan haringey
    Hi Jack, I am an architect, and just seen your post. As Papa L says you will need to apply for full planning as you have a flat, and permitted development rights apply to houses only. I've just set up my Practice, www.architectmylondonhome.com, and looking to build up clients in the area so happy to do it cost effectively for you. Let me know if you want me to do the application for you? I also have an economical structural engineer I use who works on all my projects. All the best, Yan
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