£12.50 to drive your car - ULEZ coming to Stroud Green



  • @Arkady, I have also been in a Tesla. It was fun :)
  • What is one? Is it a spaceship?
  • Is no-one going to mention the real problem being the sprogs in the back of the car on the school run?
  • Those London Council stats show that air travel causes as much NOx in London air as petrol cars.

    Quite how wanting to expand the airport (mainly to allow people to fly in and out of a hub without visiting the country) fits into our haphazard air and environment plans I don't know.
  • but what about, but what about
  • edited June 20
    Nice engaging comment there.
  • I think I said before - having other things that need looking at, or indeed that are more polluting, doesn't mean nothing should be done about cars.

    Your arguments seem to be - "but what about X" - which is redirecting the discussion to something else.

    The fact I am pro making cars more expensive and difficult to use, doesn't mean I think other issues should be ignored.
  • Mine wasn't an attempt to divert the argument: car ownership will shortly be an anachronism in London and anything to hasten that is a great thing.
  • Joust, it seemed as if you were employing an irritating modern day method of shutting down a discussion rather than engaging with it.

    I agree with your sentiment that something should be done about car pollution - I just think this warped system is not it.

    But this is an air quality issue - not a car issue.

    Planes and other NOx pollutants are an integral part of this discussion. Look at the London Councils document that I linked to, it puts them together in a chart on NOx emissions.

    Hammering ordinary Londoners for using their car to bring down NOx, while expanding a whacking great airport to produce more NOx are directly related issues.

  • joustjoust N4
    edited June 21
    I think it is a car issue as well, though. All the travel changes in London seem to have the 2nd hand benefit of making it more difficult and less attractive to drive in London. From charges to road design. I hope that they continue doing so - the goal should be to have hardly any private cars in town.

    And sure, you are right about air travel. But I think air travel is more necessary than driving to the shops, or dropping someone off at the tube in a car. I'm not sure if I'd class air travel as a public transport. But its somewhere closer than a car is.

    Last year they brought in some sort of CO2 offsetting for flights, with the tax going to UN environmental projects. But I think that it only applied to long haul flights or something, and it had some flaws. Its something that needs increasing and tightening up.
  • @joust
    air fuel is massively subsidised by the public. despite that fact that only 15% of the population fly regularly.
    @Papa L i agree totally that hitting cars while expanding Heathrow is absolutely nonsensical. I'd like to see air fuel subsidy stopped, and I'm still mildly confident that Heathrow expansion will never happen.
  • Well Boris usnit going to stop it on Monday. He has gone into hiding !
  • Disappointing high number of BBQs in the area this weekend from Islington residents. It was very difficult to breathe at times. A George foreman grill should be used instead.
  • Boris has turned up in Afghanistan
  • I have a couple of friends who live there, one of whom does something top notch secret. Wonder if he could be persuaded to make sure Boris doesn't come back.
  • In a similar move to the congestion charge, I would like to propose the annual BBQ license which must be purchased if you intend to BBQ in the year. The annual cost would be £183, and would allow you to BBQ every day of the year for just 50p. Businesses such as Bodeans or Petek, would be required to add a new tax onto BBQ food in a similar vein to the sugar tax. Electric grilled items would be tax free, or if you went for a nice charcoal grilled chicken shish you would need to pay the kebab tax. Anyone caught BBQing without a license gets a mandatory 10 year jail sentence.
  • Interesting map in this Economist article considering earlier conversations here.
    Shows annual average NOx pollution in Greater London mapped by EU limits.


    Most of the EU limit busting goes on in cpngestion charge zone area central London, head out and it falls back within limits judged to be OK (blue) with red lines along some of the major routes.

    The North and South Circular is the red inner circle line around the blue bit outside of the centre.

    That blue bit between central London and the circulars is where the new £12.50 all-day everyday ULEZ will hit all those with a petrol car from pre-2006 plate and a diesel from pre-2015 plate.

    Heathrow is marked as a problem for busting the NOx limits. Interestingly, article says biggest issue is people driving to the airport though.
  • I don't know about that. Central London is where the whole map is coloured in yellow/red but there are red and yellow lines criss-crossing all over where we live along pretty much all roads, not just major routes. My daughter's nursery is on a fairly quiet street by the Faltering Fullback in a yellow patch, for example. Here's a zoomable version:

  • Stroud Green Road itself is red, not just the North circular.
  • That makes it look like it needs expanding to the M25 :smiley:
  • Thanks for sending that zoomable link.

    Only patches of Stroud Green Road, it's mainly yellow - and yellow is on the limit not over it.

    Obviously, below yellow would be better.

    Holloway Road, Green Lanes and Seven Sisters red, but you'd expect that from main roads.

    Wonder where the air monitoring stations are that they predicted it from. Any idea?

  • I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

    Illegal levels of air pollution linked to child's death - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44612642
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