People's Referendum March

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Comments

  • It has gone up by over 300k since 10pm last night
  • Very large numbers again
  • edited March 2019
    A million marchers.

    Also Hornsey & Wood Green constutuency among the two or three highest number of people signing the Revoke Article 50 online petition.
  • Now almost 5.4m on the petition!
  • Apparently Mr Corbyn likes to obsess over the number of people in his constituency who have signed the Revoke Article 50 petition. So if you're in Islington North, please do sign and/or keep sharing!
  • Someone should take a printed copy down to Berriman Rd and ask him to sign it!
  • Bumping this up - who's going on the big march tomorrow? Stakes are getting high with numbers on a knife edge for the vote on Johnson's deal. Last chance to demonstrate before Brexit? I thought that last time, but got a horrible feeling the deal will squeak through tomorrow.
  • We have 6 going 2 up on last time, it may well be the last chance, hopfully lots and lots of folks will show up. Details here

    https://www.peoples-vote.uk/


    https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/let-us-be-heard-march-october-19-route-and-map-1-6275420
  • I do find it slightly bizarre that they are celebrating "getting a deal" when TM managed the same thing.

    I see no reason why the DUP will support it, save for another shake of the magic money tree anyway.
  • If someone could show me any March or petition that has changed anything in the last three years I'd be happy to show up. Aside from the Poll Tax demo no march has changed anything. It's a show of strength of feeling for sure but voting is the only way to make your voice heard.
  • A large march changes, or sways the opinion of people and changes the way some vote.

    This close to bonfire night might see some fireworks warfare...
  • edited October 2019
    I don't believe marches do change the way people vote. I think they mostly make those marching feel more comfortable that they are right as they are surrounded by a huge group of people who think the same as them. I don't want us to leave Europe but I don't think a Remain march in London is going to make the vast swathes of the Leave voting area I come from question their choice.
  • Apologies for making my first comment in such a contentious area, but I thought that the whole of Islington was a 'remain' voting area yet you sate you come from a 'leave ' voting area. Which area I wonder?
  • I have lived in Islington for 29 years.
    My entire family are East Londoners who migrated to deepest Essex. My grandparents were German and Irish yet still immediate and extended family voted to leave.
  • edited October 2019
    I don't imagine the march is supposed to make any of the electorate vote differently; it's to emphasise to parliament that there is some significant feeling in favour for a referendum which might determine, for example, whether to accept the present deal, or reject brexit altogether. If people are moved to vote differently on Europe from how they did in the original referendum (or to vote at all if they didn't the first time), it will be based on what they've learned and experienced in the three years since then, not from hearing about a march. This is why having another referendum IS more democratic than stubbornly insisting on the outcome of the first referendum. Campaign lies have been exposed, and we're doubtless better informed on the subject now. If we had a referendum now, surely, whatever the outcome, it would better express the current will of the electorate than the referendum of three years ago.
  • grennersgrenners Ferme Park Road, N4
    There's nothing more democratic than feeding people with project fear bullshit and making them vote again until they come out with the right answer. This isn't even real brexit. It's a deal which keeps us tied to European rules during a transition period where we argue about a trade deal. Even Mark Carney is for this 'deal'. If this gets voted down then I don't know what we will do because Boris would win an election and Corbyn won't let him have one. Totally sick of this crap. People's vote? How about if we have one and then Parliament ignores it for three years and them we have a third? Best of three?
  • Poor Sweep! You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.
  • grennersgrenners Ferme Park Road, N4
    I think the ERG are voting for it because rather than the previous treacherous ridiculous Maybot deal this one allows for a UK no deal exit from this transition agreement in the event that no trade deal is agreed? So we will have trade negotiations where no deal is on the table? And so it goes on.
  • Whether or not one voted Leave, I think a lot of my colleagues (and bear in mind pretty much everyone who works in my company are under the age of thirty and profess to be Lib/Lab) just want something to happen one way or the other and think that Bercow, Labour and the Lib Dems are shooting themselves in the foot with all the delaying tactics; constantly blocking the deal and a GE just gives more % to the conservatives at this point.

    Obviously a lot of Remain voters are keen to block the deal which is understandable - my partners says , 'why don't they just cancel the whole thing.' Well sadly Brexit isn't a ticket, and democratically the only way forward is a deal if we're going to be honest with ourselves. Noone's ever going to be 100% satisfied, look at even simple questions you'd think would be popular like the Crouch End traffic trial seems to cause a disproportionate hullabaloo.

    Democracy can be a bugger and land us with results we don't want, but I can't see an option that doesn't break us all apart except a deal right now.

  • AliAli
    edited October 2019
    "an option that doesn't break us all apart except a deal right"

    The deal as it is will cause an enormous "break us all apart" Being in the EU is vastly superior from an economic point of view. Scotland will vote in a Indy vote to leave the Union and NI will have a border vote.

    It would just be simpler if England just left the UK and then go an negotiate a trade deal with the EU and what is left of the UK.
  • grennersgrenners Ferme Park Road, N4
    Exactly and the deal is not Brexit it's some kind of transition arrangement so we can talk about a trade deal whilst continuing to hand over the money to Brussels but not being at the table to debate the rules. If we want a trade deal quickly, i.e. in a year or two (that's not even quick but it is by EU standards) then we have not finished yet as there will be plenty of agruments about aligning to EU regulations or not. We will probably end up with some sort of half way house which I hope will be worth it. There is more of this to come even after the deal passes.

    Hopefully the EU will wait to the very last minute on 31 October and then grant a 1 week extension if necessary so that there can be a vote and then we can all more on to stage 2.

    Constantly trying to frustrate the original result is perpetuating the problem which wouldn't go away if there was a 52/48 vote for remain in a second referendum. The problem that the EU caused itself by not dealing with Camerons requests properly and being set up with a built in democratic deficit and being run by federalist extremists hell bent on a united states of Europe run by an unelected comission and a European parliament which cannot propose laws for debate in its own chamber.......etc etc. Even Verhofstad has openly supported the idea of creating a European Empire with a European Army. A lot of remainers feel uncomfortable about all of that.



  • @Ali I get you, it will cause disruption; as a dual national it is sending a certain message to our mates over the water - but I don't agree with you about breaking us apart - Remain or Hard Brexit breaks us apart whilst the deal is as in the middle as possible realistically.

    I feel that the extremists now are on the Remain side, not the Brexit side. And that's saying something!

    Obviously it's your opinion that we should stay - but people have the complete opposite view - possibly even more than half the country in fact. So in essence, both you as a Remainer and @grenners as a Leaver will have to 'suck it up' and accept a deal that's never going to be perfect.

    If it keeps on getting blocked, postponed or even stopped entirely, then I'm genuinely worried about the message it says to voters who put their faith in the vote, expecting it to be enacted, to then be told by the establishment (and let's be honest it's generally the establishment) that it's impossible.

    Ideally we would not be in this position and it would all be laa dee da, but it's not and we all need to make a compromise or we're heading towards a Charles I situation.
  • Sorry If comments come across as rude btw! no ill feelings
  • Luke I wasn't intending to be pushing remain it was more about the potential breakup of the UK with Scotland winning a referendum and Border poll in Ireland reuniting the island of Ireland. Events as they are at the moment are moving that way. Johnson is making outrageous claims about his great deal. It is the easiest task I'm the world to negotiate a bad deal is what he has done which explains why he is avoiding scrutiny
    An interesting side effect is that the Hornsey and Wood green seat is now a marginal because of labours position on all this
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