Healthy Stroud Green Neighbourhood meeting - 18th March 7.30pm

bethany336 · March 2021

Healthy Streets Stroud Green
Neighbourhood Meeting - come and share your views Thursday, 18 March 2021, 7.30-9.00 pm
Lancaster Road has 4,000 cars a day cutting through. Upper Tollington double that. There’s been a huge increase of traffic on residential roads. The air pollution is affecting all of us. We want:
● A low not a high traffic neighbourhood
● Healthy streets for walking, cycling, socialising and playing
● Clean Air
Speakers:
● Update on Walking and Cycling Plan - Stroud Green Street Reps
● Cat Kenyon from Haringey Living Streets - Why we need LTNs
● Sarah Berry from Railton LTN - Why LTNs help communities to flourish
● Together talk about where filters might go, discuss concerns, plan ahead
JOIN US https://healthystroudgreen.wordpress.com/ and complete the survey on ACTIONS:
Follow: @N4Area Contact us: sgwcap@gmail.com

LukeG · March 2021

@bethany336 you many be interested in this plan

https://www.haringey.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/travel/transport-strategy/low-traffic-neighbourhoods-haringey

Brodiej · March 2021

@bethany336 4000 a day. 167 an hour, 24 hours a day? Where did that headline stat come from and in what period was it observed?

HolbornFox · March 2021

Imagine the excitement when it was 11:59pm and the 3999th car went past, another 'study' to be relied on to stop the key worker mega meanies who have to drive for work.

I see that the bottom of Hornsey Road is blocked off to traffic now, i would gamble my left leg that will not impede the diesel coaches coming and going to the football ground.

bethany336 · March 2021

@Brodiej the stats come from a council 7 day ATC (automatic traffic count) that was conducted on Lancaster Rd, N4 from 3/2/2020. The average daily count over the 7 days was 4000 cars. If you want more information it was organised and managed by Danny Gayle - Engineering Projects Manager at Haringey Council.

bethany336 · March 2021

@HolbornFox sadly I don’t think any of the residents on Lancaster road were excited by the 3999th car. It wasn’t a study but an ATC (automatic traffic count) set up over 7 days by Haringey Council on 3/2/2020.

HolbornFox · March 2021

@bethany336 and (having lived on Marlborough Road which is a cut through) I feel your pain, nobody wants cars flying through side streets at all hours.

However (assuming that you have seen the absolute chaos that ensues when roads are closed off without proper planning), what plans are being put in place for people that do need to drive for work via LTNs (I am a key worker and I have to drive)?

Also what is the plan to combat the massive increase in emissions that will be generated when an extra 167 cars have to travel at a snail’s pace down Stroud Green Road every hour?

Could you please provide a link or some literature regarding the 4000 / 8000 cars a day statement?

bethany336 · March 2021

@HolbornFox haringey council led the traffic monitoring so if you contact Danny Gayle (engineering projects manager) I’m sure he will be happy to confirm the 7 day average that they recorded on Lancaster Road and share the report with you. I don’t live on Lancaster, unfortunately I live on a much busier road that is unlikely to have through traffic stropped. But we would like to propose no HGVs on these roads and bike lanes to make cycling safer. There is lots of information on the website in the link above that may be of interest to you and do please come to the meeting as all locals ideas are welcome and needed and there are some great people speaking who are very well versed in all the studies on LTNs that have been done. I absolutely see both sides of this and want less traffic on all roads so traffic that needs to be there, like you and our fantastic key workers, can get about easily. We obviously don’t have any part in the planning as we are just a local community group but I think Haringey will consult well and make changes to our streets that are fair for the majority whilst taking into account the climate crisis and health crisis we are in. Thats what we hope for. We also are pushing for all busses on main roads to be electric and also that the main roads get a big tree planting push, creating Avenues. But we do have to start somewhere at reducing pollution as the health effects for all are deadly as we are now finding out. Please come to the meeting and have your say.

HolbornFox · March 2021

@bethany336 like most people on here you are totally sensible and can give reasoned arguments for less traffic and better neighbourhoods.

The issue is that it does not matter if 200 local residents stand up and state that they do not want a LTN, it will still happen (and ludicrous stats being thrown around will definitely accompany it), so it is a waste of time.

Personally I believe this has nothing to do with emissions and everything to do with vehicles becoming automated, TFL is skint (and I suspect Highways England is not far behind) so need (or desire) cars and the road network ran by AI companies, no doubt with consultancy jobs for the boys to follow.

We all know what damage computer and phone production do to the environment (not to mention the child labour) so playing Devil's advocate how would you feel if the powers that be taxed your electronic equipment usage to the point it was unaffordable for you to earn a living using the same but your bills were still due?

bethany336 · March 2021

@HolbornFox i haven’t come across the automated cars being behind traffic reduction ideas so I will look into it. Interesting. I’m sorry you feel it would be a waste of time coming to the meeting. It would be interesting to hear all ideas and thoughts but totally your choice. I also have big concerns about electrical equipment and tech and it’s environmental and ethical impact. I personally would be happy to pay a bit more but what I would rather see is companies pay more towards the damage they create, better wages and conditions for employees, devices made that last longer, a complete change in the way we are advertised them so the constant desire to have/need the new versions of things is seen for what it is. But this is a whole new discussion and one that our current government/corporations/system seems not ready to face for obvious reasons. Money is still valued more than people or the planet. But one thing I do feel is we will all have to make compromises and changes if we want to progress towards a fairer and healthier world for the majority. I do hope you will join us. Thanks for the engagement and for listening.

HolbornFox · March 2021

@bethany336

"Money is still valued more than people or the planet. But one thing I do feel is we will all have to make compromises and changes if we want to progress towards a fairer and healthier world for the majority."

Hoooray, we finally agree on something!

You have actually convinced me to join the meeting next week, I did not think it would be a genuine forum for different viewpoints, so thank you.

Now I would like you to enact Godwin's law against me, on the double, this has been far too pleasant and enlightening for 2021 on the Internet.

LukeG · March 2021

I think it would be worth looking at everything the council is actually proposing at the moment - visible in this great post on Harringay online.

https://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/haringey-publishes-medium-term-plan-for-25-lo-traffic-neighbourho?commentId=844301:Comment:1410788&xg_source=activity

It includes a map with a proposed zone for 'Crouch End East' and 'Stroud Green'.

@bethany336 Endymion Road seems to be excluded from any of the LTN zones.

bethany336 · March 2021

Brilliant @HolbornFox. We think it’s important to hear all views and concerns so we can make sure we pressure the council to do the best for the majority and take into consideration all positions. Also it’s absolutely fine to have different ideas and options but we are trying to be open and respectful as most of us are good people just trying to do our best and sometimes the anger and vitriol that can go along with these discussions can be very unhelpful. I personally don’t want that anger and “othering’ of people that has become so prevalent today. The cancelling of each other’s views and nastiness is not going to get us anywhere. If we can all work together and find our common goals/wants and needs I think we stand a better chance against the real problems we face. That’s the idea anyway. Hope to see you at the meeting.

bethany336 · March 2021

@LukeG yes we saw Endymion was not included which is a shame as it’s one of the worst roads in Stroud Green. We are trying to push for a stop to all the HVGs that cut through here as only one block down Seven Sisters is much better designed for such large vehicles. And also a bike lane so at least it is safe to cycle. It’s a fine balance as to what the whole community wants and what’s fair whilst trying to tackle in a small part the amount of pollution and noise the locals of SG have to endure. We hope at our meeting we can have sensible and robust discussions so we can get to a position that the majority of the community are behind so we can then push the council to implement this. We hope you will join the meeting and have your say.

LukeG · March 2021

Yes, 100% behind this initiative! Streets should be for residents, not those taking a short cut.

Ideally in the future we can get the roads themselves as green and play-friendly as possible.

Was just pointing it out that Haringey council tends to be quite defensive with plans they have already started on - for example, Finsbury Park is not included in the Finsbury Park and Stroud Green Neighbourhood area for planning.

I will try to join, baby willing.

Ali · March 2021

Flyers have been placed on car windscreens around Stroud Green showing a map that shows what it claims to be what the Stroud Green LTN would look like and where the planters would be placed. I haven't been able to find the map on the council web site and there are no details on any consulataions for Stround Green yet. Does anyone have alink to the actual council map for this or waht was placed on the cars someones idea of what it might look like? It looked like on the map that if you live in Lancaster, Florence or Victoria Roads there will be no through road so a lot less cars I guess.

LukeG · March 2021

@Ali look at my above post - only the proposed outlines have been decided on by the council - they aren't at the stage of getting to Stroud Green and 'Crouch End East' details yet - they're working on At Ann's and a few others.
I believe these are the proposals from the group, not from the council.

Ali · March 2021

The flyer mentions a zoom meeting at the same time as the one above which is being held by Healthy Streets Stroud Green. The flyer does not identify the group it is from so I don't know if the two meetings are actually the same thing. The posts above seem to be for it but manage it in properly and the flyer seesm to be against ?

Confused ?

bethany336 · March 2021

@Ali @LukeG the flyers that have been put on cars are not by Healthy Stroud Green Group but by an anonymous anti LTN group trying to get anti LTN people to the meeting. We hope for respectful and peaceful discussions. The map has been taken from the HSG website. It’s one of the ideas for traffic reduction that we want to discuss and not one proposed from the council. The council are proposing an LTN in the Stroud Green area so we wanted to discuss the local residents views on the matter so we may be able to get a version of it that the majority is happy with. We hope to see you at the meeting and please fill out our survey when you have 5 minutes. Thanks

Ali · March 2021

Thanks as I thought. Takes me back to the Save the Parland Walk and London ALARM meetings which became over run with Trots!. They bored and went away and rioted in Central London against the Poll Tax. Hopefully you wont need to use Jackie Weaver tactics to keep order !

Ali · March 2021

NIce website lots of good info. I guess the flyer will help to gte a wider group of opinion along to the meeting as they will have a view

bethany336 · March 2021

@Ali yes we hope to get a broad view of ideas and options. We have posted flyers in every door and had lots of door step chats in the area. We know the overwhelming view is pro traffic reduction and safer cycling and walking. A child was nearly hit by a car outside Stroud Green school again this week so the school are very concerned about the amount of traffic. We also know the council are serious about implementing LTNs in Haringey over the next few years so better to get an idea of how our community would like them to look/work so we can hopefully get closer to what the majority of residents want. Ultimately the council will decide but it’s good for the community to get a say. Our proposals will be discussed and not one of them will stop residents getting to their homes or driving. It’s about traffic REDUCTION and safer cycling and walk and breathing.

Eliz · March 2021

Thanks Bethany, meeting sounds interesting and I'll do my best to come along. I'm one of many Stroud Green School parents who is very concerned with the traffic situation around the school, there have been lots of near misses and something needs to change.

LukeG · March 2021

@bethany336 thanks for clarifying, the group is clearly trying to disrupt your event and got me confused.

I'm 100% behind the plans and hope to join tomorrow.

LukeG · March 2021

Could you please link through to the survey?

Scruffy · March 2021

It's a shame that the leaflet "Please Read - This Affects You" was printed on such hard, shiny stock, so it can't even be used as toilet paper. The responsible party or parties didn't even have the decency or common sense to identify themselves, so their message has neither authority nor veracity. Off to Tesco to get loo roll!

bethany336 · March 2021

@LukeG if you click on our website link at the top of this tread and then go to Actions, you can scroll down and see there is a link to the residence survey and business survey there. Let me know if you have a problem. Unfortunately we had been warned there may be groups that want to sabotage our meetings. We hope they are residents with different opinions and that we can work together to find compromises. Most of us are good people and want an overall reduction in pollution, it’s just agreeing on how we get there. But they are apparently a few well funded groups that pretend to be residents and grassroots groups and go to lots of these meetings to disrupt them. A reduction in driving will mean less money in a few pockets so we expect backlash. As our councillors can’t make the meeting (they have a big council meeting on the same night) they have asked us to record it and report back. So fingers crossed we get sensible and respectful discussions. Let me know if you have problems with the survey. Thanks

Luirette · April 2021

I was at the meeting and felt rather mislead. It wasn't about having a neighbourhood discussion at all. Rather of the two hour meeting 1.40 ours was listening to lectures promoting LTNs, with everyone's mics switched off. Then in the final 20 minutes we were put into small groups in breakout rooms where we were able to chat but it was very rushed and there was no feedback to the main group. The people running this campaign seem like very nice reasonable people and are clearly very passionate but I don't think they should be promoting these events as 'neighbourhood meetings' and promising open discussion, when actually this is a LTN campaign exercise.

Many residents such as myself, as disabled driver, do have legitimate concerns about LTNs which are not all rosy, perfect solutions to the traffic problem as they are touted. Would be great if they were! E.g. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/traffic-calming-zones-london-delay-fire-crews-xmplwxp38?fbclid=IwAR1CzuSbS8qIoGwCBBwomGSXWrOvjyiYjAEeDHz2HpdsDOSwzdSj3LU4oAI

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Healthy Stroud Green Neighbourhood meeting - 18th March 7.30pm

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