Obviously something needs to be there to hold up the Parkland Walk, but does the current bridge have any particular merit other than being old? It seems rather plain and banal to me, and not attractive at all to pass under. Perhaps a steel structure would be much easier to maintain than so many tons of bricks. After all, the bridge was probably designed to withstand the weight of two freight trains going over it; at most it's going to have the occasional landscaping vehicle or digger going over it now. Something less visually weighty might look much better in its place.
It looks good in the location it's in, with the matching Victorian architecture next door. Also, if you're ecologically minded, what's the point of replacing something when a repair can do just as fine - it's just the willpower to close the road and spend a while rebuilding it brick by brick.
I do believe it's beautiful, not the best example of a brick bridge, but our built environment will end up looking just like anywhere else in the world if we get rid of these monuments to industrialisation.
Haringey Council could also issue a Building Preservation Notice if it considers the bridge to have special architectural or historic interest, but which is in danger of demolition or alteration in such a way as to affect its character, by a form of temporary listing.
Completely agree that it's a beautiful bridge and deserves to be protected. I think Haringey Council would have to be pushed to issue a preservation notice, can't imagine it's something they would bother to do without local pressure.
All very well getting sentimental (I’m just preempting here) over the efforts of the brickies, engineers, and architects of yore (i.e., when they were good), but it’s just a bog-standard railway bridge typical of its era (isn’t it?) with no outstanding features: A straight line over an arch in dark, rather unattractive brick. I doubt even Fred Dibnah would have had much to say in its favour.
Perhaps because of the bridge’s sheer mass it would be impractical to maintain the brickwork to a safe standard?
It's London stock brick, it's just that's it's dirty and neglected. The long arches are appealing to me. It's historic - the station used to be on it, and its a rare example of a bridge built OVER a cross-cutting railway tunnel. It forms part of a complex with the old station master's house. And if it were replaced it would doubtless be with the same sort of featureless modernist crap that has replaced other old bridges along the Parkland Walk.
To destroy it rather than repair it would be yet another example of our attractive historic infrastructure being gradually being lost through neglect - and replacing it may well be more costly than if they'd maintained it properly in the first place. They just need to keep it watertight and keep it from being overgrown. Reinforce it internally with concrete if necessary, it wouldn't be the first time that had happened to preserve an older structure. Just do it properly, hidden within the structure, not like this: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/jul/21/highways-england-may-have-to-reverse-act-of-cultural-vandalism
“Historic”, @Arkady ? I can accept that it might be of interest to an engineering or architectural historian if it’s as rare as you say, but “attractive”? Chacun à son goût, I suppose. It MIGHT be replaced by “featureless modernist crap”, and if the view of central London from Alexandra Palace is a taste of it, I’m no fan of modernism either (I’ve considered applying for lottery funding to arrange for a return visit from the Luftwaffe; we need them now more than ever!), but this bridge is hardly The Salisbury and is as about as featureless as a Victorian bridge could be; more industrially grim than pleasing to the eye.
Yeah it's not as pretty as the Salisbury, so might as well neglect a 200 year old building until it has to be replaced by the taxpayer at great expense. I despair.
There are tons of boring indentikit areas like Woodberry Down that are attractive in the modern sense - people like our area because it does have character not because it's been pulled down and rebuilt.
It's important to preserve elements of our past that can be repaired at a smaller ecological cost than wholesale replacement. Redevelopments like coaldrops show that even the less beautiful elements of our past (canal warehouses) can be preserved well and sit beautifully in a redeveloped setting. Who knows what the future holds for Stroud Green, but these monuments need to outlast this generation and live for at least another few hundred years.
Well, even if it were 200 years old (which it isn’t) would that be sufficient merit alone to preserve it? The cost of replacement hasn’t been revealed. Does anyone know whether it’s going to be economically or ecologically more viable to maintain it or replace it?
Call me a philistine, but I’m yet to get a sense of the aesthetic qualities that have been alluded to of this plain (“boring”?), bog-standard bridge from the industrial age. I too despair (well, at least I would, should I wish to employ histrionics).
I’m pretty sure the UTP and Stapleton Road bridges are locally listed, and part of the justification for the Conservation Area. Would be pretty difficult for Haringey Council to replace rather than repair the bridges, definitely requiring planning permission that would set a precedent for knocking down any buildings in the local area just because it was cheaper to demolish and replace than repair, and even undermine some of the rationale for the conservation area in the first place.
This is all quite ironic as one of the reasons the line was closed was weak bridges on the line that were too expensive to repair…
That's interesting about the local list. It makes sense though. I wasn't really aware of the local list. I noticed my old house is on it. I had no idea.
It used to be our local station when we lived in Florence Road in the 40s and 50s. It served the AllyPally Push and Pull. This two coach steam train went to Finsbury Park and served quite a large community. At that time Parkland Walk was simply a high, grass covered embankment which, in dry summers often caught fire from the locomotive's cinders. The fire brigade had to park in Florence or Lancaster Road and run their hoses through the houses. Most local people did however walk down to Finsbury Park tube station rather than take the APP&P, it wasn't so far. Hardly worth the diversion to the station or a walk down to Stroud Green Road for a bus. Bus numbers 210 (to Golders Green) 212 to Muswell Hill, and the 233 to Wood Green via Ally Pally.
Love the mental image of the fire brigade running their hoses through houses to the embankment! I wonder how many fires were started by the old locomotives.
A bit off-topic, but since you mention it, I’m only old enough to remember the W2 (to Turnpike Lane via Crouch End), which I think was discontinued in the ‘90s. The 210 to Golders Green still runs (and sometimes to Brent Cross—I remember it being extended for the shopping centre there opening in the ‘70s), but perhaps the 212 and 233 became the W7 and W3 respectively? (I do wonder what the “W” is for.)
Thought I'd pop back in after all this time. I'm in an old people's home now so have plenty of time to dawdle and recall how things used to be. Arkady, I remember the name! Scruffy: in 1947 we had a very hot and long summer. The embankment was black. Beyond the garden wall in Florence road there was a ditch where the rain created a wet barrier to getting out of the garden onto the grass. Although getting back was even more difficult. I wonder if that ditch is still there?
Comments
Are these bridges listed in any way?
I do believe it's beautiful, not the best example of a brick bridge, but our built environment will end up looking just like anywhere else in the world if we get rid of these monuments to industrialisation.
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/apply-for-listing/
Haringey Council could also issue a Building Preservation Notice if it considers the bridge to have special architectural or historic interest, but which is in danger of demolition or alteration in such a way as to affect its character, by a form of temporary listing.
All very well getting sentimental (I’m just preempting here) over the efforts of the brickies, engineers, and architects of yore (i.e., when they were good), but it’s just a bog-standard railway bridge typical of its era (isn’t it?) with no outstanding features: A straight line over an arch in dark, rather unattractive brick. I doubt even Fred Dibnah would have had much to say in its favour.
Perhaps because of the bridge’s sheer mass it would be impractical to maintain the brickwork to a safe standard?
To destroy it rather than repair it would be yet another example of our attractive historic infrastructure being gradually being lost through neglect - and replacing it may well be more costly than if they'd maintained it properly in the first place. They just need to keep it watertight and keep it from being overgrown. Reinforce it internally with concrete if necessary, it wouldn't be the first time that had happened to preserve an older structure. Just do it properly, hidden within the structure, not like this: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/jul/21/highways-england-may-have-to-reverse-act-of-cultural-vandalism
It's important to preserve elements of our past that can be repaired at a smaller ecological cost than wholesale replacement. Redevelopments like coaldrops show that even the less beautiful elements of our past (canal warehouses) can be preserved well and sit beautifully in a redeveloped setting. Who knows what the future holds for Stroud Green, but these monuments need to outlast this generation and live for at least another few hundred years.
Call me a philistine, but I’m yet to get a sense of the aesthetic qualities that have been alluded to of this plain (“boring”?), bog-standard bridge from the industrial age. I too despair (well, at least I would, should I wish to employ histrionics).
This is all quite ironic as one of the reasons the line was closed was weak bridges on the line that were too expensive to repair…
Most local people did however walk down to Finsbury Park tube station rather than take the APP&P, it wasn't so far. Hardly worth the diversion to the station or a walk down to Stroud Green Road for a bus. Bus numbers 210 (to Golders Green) 212 to Muswell Hill, and the 233 to Wood Green via Ally Pally.
Love the mental image of the fire brigade running their hoses through houses to the embankment! I wonder how many fires were started by the old locomotives.
A bit off-topic, but since you mention it, I’m only old enough to remember the W2 (to Turnpike Lane via Crouch End), which I think was discontinued in the ‘90s. The 210 to Golders Green still runs (and sometimes to Brent Cross—I remember it being extended for the shopping centre there opening in the ‘70s), but perhaps the 212 and 233 became the W7 and W3 respectively? (I do wonder what the “W” is for.)
Arkady, I remember the name!
Scruffy: in 1947 we had a very hot and long summer. The embankment was black.
Beyond the garden wall in Florence road there was a ditch where the rain created a wet barrier to getting out of the garden onto the grass. Although getting back was even more difficult. I wonder if that ditch is still there?