Stabbing at the Tesco...

berrynice

On the way home tonight, I stopped in at the Tesco - there was a police cordon and a couple of cop cars outside, and the main door was shut. They were letting people in around the side, and the security guard said that the Big Issue man had been stabbed - by an old lady?! Anyone know any more? A bit freaky, and hope Big Issue man is okay.

Bridget

God that is awful.

That probably explains the police cars on Tollington Park and ambulance and the police knocking on doors in Charteris Road.

To be honest I think they need to clear up outside of Tescos with all the drunks and and drugusers - its pretty depressing.

Walking past the White Lion is pretty depressing too!

Oh dear I hope he is ok.

Emma

Oh right - I posted about this in another thread. I had heard it was a stabbing but not who had been stabbed.

There's a homeless lady always outside Tesco who's really friendly but I have noticed lately a load more people hanging about outside with white lightning/massive dogs, and it is starting to feel a bit aggy and threatening, as if the White Lion wasn't bad enough. Wonder if the police will now have a crackdown?

out_and_stroud

Yeah, Tesco on Stroud Green Road is bleak. Also, the check-out staff in there never speak to me and always throw my shopping at me. Where's the love?

Poor Big Issue man.

Toddlesocks

I was there on Tues just before 6, outside was like a meeting place to the point i decided it was to intimidating to use the cash point, which i noticed no one else was using at the time.

the count

I was just having my hair cut in Chaps on Tollington Park and the Portugese guy in there said that the police arrested the old lady in front of his shop. They searched her Tesco bag but didn't find a knife.

He was particularly surprised as he said she just looked like a harmless little old lady. He reckoned she must have been about 70.

It's all a bit bizarre.

Bridget

Hello,

I just spoke to a lovely woman in there called Liz who as worked there for 27 years!

She said the drunks and drug users were fighting yesterday and an old woman white hair attacked the Big Issue seller.

She said she saw him this morning wrapped up in a big jacket with a burly man like a minder.

She said she feels intiimidated arriving for work in the mornings and calls in to get people to look out for her.

She said the police couldnt do anything to move them on unless they were being threatening. She said the girl in the sleeping bag had been there for 7 years.

She said the police tried to move them on this morning. When I went past I spotted at least 15 drunks - with new faces there too. Maybe the fight has attracted more of them. There felt like a lot of them.

Such a shame they have to hang out there, its so depressing.

out_and_stroud

Not as depressing as working at Tesco Stroud Green Road for 27 years...

katiejane

Its definitely getting worse. I think we should all lobby the Safer Neighbourhoods Team and Lynne Featherstone. (I did like her survey btw - and its emphasis on potholes and cracked paving as being nuisance issues - if only!)

I always thought the drinkers and drug users hung out here becaues of the DASH centre, but that's been closed for ages.

We spoke to a guy from the SNT recently when they were patrolling the estate, about the drinkers on the bench opposite the WLOM. Said he'd have a word but there wasn't a great deal they could do. I did notice there's an alcohol ban in Fin Fin Park though - surely it wouldn't take a lot to extend it to SGR. I don't normally support things like that, but it really needs something to make that bit of SGR feel a bit safer.

granville

I reckon the quickest solution would be to remove the benches outside Tesco.

They don't seem like hardened trouble makers - more care in the community (or even special needs?) types.

ymmv...

Duncan

@Granville: that's exactly what they did outside Finchley Central Tescos

Billy Bookcase

Sweep the streets clean.
Sweep the streets clean.

tosscat

Why don't we shove them all in the Granville spinney like you have shoved your excess of parked cars on Granville Road.

Emma

@out_and_stroud - the Tesco staff are really friendly as long as you treat them like human beans. It's a sh#tty job and unsurprising if they're fed up but they, like anyone, respond well to manners and a bit of friendly chat.

I think Wetherspoons should make their beer cheaper to lure the Bench People away from Tesco.

katiejane

I think the WLOM should have their licence for tables outside revoked!

@ Emma - was that howling error on purpose?

out_and_stroud

@Emma - I know exactly how shitty a job it is, having sold my soul to Sainsburys for three years while putting myself through uni. I still managed to make some sort of response when a customer said 'Hello' to me.

So do we know exactly what tranpired the other night? You'd think 'Old Lady stabs Big Issue seller' would have been too good a headline for the press to ignore.

sophie

a nice young man at the tesco checkout scanned ALL my vouchers the other day in response to a hello and a smile. i always say hello and smile but rarely get such a nice response let alone 85 (85!) free clubcard points. that's like 8.5p or something, and i still have the vouchers to spend again!!
i heart tesco.

out_and_stroud

I think I'm going to the wrong tesco...

tosscat

I'm with the lovers on this one. The staff are lovely. Have a quick chat, smile, ask them how they are.

Bridget

I think the staff are lovely too, there is a really nice young greek guy cashier there who always chats to me. Most of them do.

I do think what you give is what you get back, I always smile and say hi and stuff and I get a lot of help back and smiles.


Even Christine who is rather put upon, if you chat and smile to her she thaws a bit.

I know a lot of people who are rude to them and quite horrible so it must be quite awful for them being treated like shit all the time.

I heart all the staff!

Bridge

dion

@ sophie - you are wrong. It is actually 85 pence. You were wrong by 1000%! Amazing. You probably feel ten times richer already. And if you get a clubcard deal you can get up to four times that value, giving you a whole forty times more money than you originally thought! Isn't Tesco wonderful?

matt

The infrequent times I go in there, I also chat to the people on checkout and they're all good fun. There's always something going on at one till or another that is enough to start a small conversation. Of course, I have seen all the drunks and the girl camped out there but I've never seen any drug users outside Tesco? Unless they put all their drugs away when they see me coming? I'm originally from Liverpool, and have seen my fair share of all that stuff

Bobby

I hope there are no Tesco employees on here using this as a propaganda opportunity.

Philistine'sMonster

Hello all, I thought I’d just make a few friendly neighbourly points about this discussion. Also, some damage limitation before everyone starts thinking we have an escalating problem with anti-social behaviour. About drinking, drugs, and Stuart “The Big Issue man” – for Stuart is his name: if you don’t know him, try saying hello next time you see him and have a chat; he’s a genuinely nice fella trying to make a new start in life. OK. Bear with me, this may take some time... Bridget said that someone else said that, “the drunks and drug users were fighting yesterday and an old woman white hair attacked the Big Issue seller.” They weren’t “fighting”. It was an unprovoked attack. It’s a complicated story, but what happened has nothing directly to do with drugs or alcohol. With hope, all is now resolved and the person responsible getting the treatment they deserve. It was lucky for Stuart he wasn’t killed. Granville said, “They don't seem like hardened trouble makers - more care in the community (or even special needs?) types.” He’s right. The care in the community/drugs issue is an interesting question but unsurprising seeing as we have a home for schizophrenics on Stroud Green Road. Katiejane said, “I always thought the drinkers and drug users hung out here becaues of the DASH centre, but that's been closed for ages.” Aye … but there’s a home for crack-addicts and a home for heroin-addicts just off Stroud Green Road itself. These people are just trying to get better or live with their illnesses. Some of us may not like to see them on our doorstep (or even god-forbid on a public bench) but until we can sweep them off to another area, find a cure, or – controversially, perhaps – even help them with their illnesses, I’m afraid we’re rather stuck with ‘em. Like it or not, they’re part of our community and it takes all sorts doesn’t it? No, really, doesn’t it? I’m sure most of you will disagree. Maybe you’ll think I’m a woolly-minded Liberal, but personally I don’t see how banning tables outside the White Lion of Mortimer or alcohol in Stroud Green Road is going to help anyone (although, I fear if Boris has his way there’ll soon be no tables outside any pub). Apart from the Noble, which is a relative newcomer, I’ve seen trouble in all the pubs in the area. Not much, though. There’s the infamous You-Tube clip of the “football” incident at Wetherspoons, but there was a similar incident in The Larrick and Old Dairy – a fight between two pubs in the street involving several police cars! Wow! Maybe we should ban football…? There were occasional dodgy goings-on in the dark corners of The Fullback, and when Chapter One first opened way back in the day, it was rather “naughty” some nights ... I hasten to add that the management and staff of all these establishments try to stop the minority of troublemakers responsible. Inevitably, some will slip through the net, however. I promise you, if they’re caught they will be executed ... or at least barred for life (which is tantamount to the same thing). Seriously, compared with other areas, Stroud Green’s pubs (on the whole) are responsible and safe places to drink. And, yes, that means the White Lion of Mortimer, too. We’re very lucky. My family’s lived here for 30-odd years; some of the people in the pubs have drunk here for 40 or 50 years. Until about 10 or 15 years ago you probably wouldn’t walk into ANY of the pubs round here unless you wanted to buy a gun or drugs. Ironically (as Ali has pointed out several times) back then, Wetherspoons was the NICE pub. Apart from the clientele, there’s no difference in drinking outside Wetherspoons or the Noble or Chapter One, except perhaps for a slightly snippy attitude towards lower working-class people, (or, more accurately, harmless, retired old Irish widowers who have nothing else to do but meet for a chat in the “elephant’s graveyard” as it is affectionately known). I use all the pubs because each is different. For the past year, I’ve started to visit the White Lion (it took some courage but it wasn’t as scary as I thought). I love ‘em all, and I love the people I meet there – although you’re probably less likely to have a friendly chat with a stranger in the Noble, perhaps…? I really care about Stroud Green. It’s my home. It’s your home too – and that means there’s something for all of us. Isn’t that amazing? I think so. But the price we pay for that is to tolerate others. Gawd bless Stroud Green and all who struggle to live in her – including the staff at Tesco. Oh, and please remember to enjoy your drinks responsibly.  Phil.

Lucy

Excellent post Phil! Although have to say SGR does seem slightly scarier recently - was threatened by a woman I saw stealing from one of the local shops, said she'd wait for me outside after I told the shopkeeper. But... it was just one person and one incident in the 7 years we've lived here. Generally, find most people round here very friendly, especially my fellow dog walkers on Parkland Walk.

Colette

Well said, Phil.
I really can't understand those people who say SGR feels scary (sorry, Lucy, but it's just my personal point of view, and I might feel differently if I'd had a bad experience). Walking home at night, things are always open, there are plenty of people around, and I've never once felt threatened. I find walking to Cally rd tube back from my dad's in London's glamorous and gentrified Barnsbury an all together more nervy experience. Gangs of kids roaming around leering at you, and no one around and no open shops to dive into.
I don't really see what the problem is with the people on the benches outside Tesco - they may not make the area look pretty, but who cares - they've never bothered me, been rude or threatening, so what's the problem? I know that no one actually believes people when they say this, but I don't want SGR to become the next Highbury Barn, I like the grittiness of it, the mix of shops (although if one of the 10 million pound shops becomes a nice deli selling good food, I won't complain), the fact that you can buy a pint of milk, some olives and some pringles on Christmas morning.

matt

One of the pound shops has recently become a hair products shop. Not quite the transition I was hoping for, and to be honest it was the best pound shop that went so I do sort of miss it! Lucy, why on earth did you tell the shopkeeper? That's my idea of looking for trouble, so I'm not surprised it found you. Oh, and great post Phil

Billy Bookcase

Yes, great posts from Phil and Colette.
I have only lived here for twenty-six years off and on but I agree with almost everything you've said.Thank you for being so patient to spell this out so carefully and judiciously.
Personally, I think that it is really gentrification that brings the unpleasant edge to the encounters between guilty "haves" and resentful "have nots". Happily we haven't had a lot of that to deal with around here though the area has changed a lot since I arrived in 1982.
That variety of bitter conflict is a rather different kind of problem than the one being played out on SGR.
I didn't like what I took to be the lofty, vigilante tone of some of the posts above. They sounded narcissistic and echoed what I think of as a rather US style harshness and indifference to the complex inter-relations that characterise our urban experiences in this cosmopolitan world city of ours. I got very tired of that "ghetto/suburb" polarisation when I lived in the US for a spell. I think it's an unthinking response to how inequality is actually increasing around us now. Inequality makes people less alike and the fear of other people becomes part of how we are being governed.
When I go out of the house I get no comfort from seeing only people who I imagine are already just like myself. I think that being exposed to other people enriches my own life. It is the delicacy of that balance locally that keeps me living here. Your mileage as they say these days, may vary.

katiejane

Yes, well said Phil & JF. It's always good to be reminded that these are people behind these issues - and yes I will make a point of talking to Stuart. I like the mix of people in SG and London too, and yes I agree I feel way safer here (scary dogs aside) than other places I've lived in London.

(However @ JF - 'only lived here for 27 years'? Do you have had to live here for a generation to have a view?)

If the licensee at the WLOM stuck to the terms of their licence (like taking their tables in at 11pm) the I wouldn't have an issue.

Call me a nimby but I still think they should move the bench from opposite the WLOM, maybe to oustide Phil's bedroom window. Oh shit - you'll all know where I live now!

tosscat

I'm neither enriched by the clientele of the WLOM nor scared to go into Tesco: am I schitzophrenic?

andy

Good posts (I think Phil's is the longest, most fact-filled post ever on this site). My 2p: I don't think that the area would turn into Chelsea if we could properly take care of vulnerable people and I see very little of SGRs charm coming from the fact that as a society we're prepared to see someone sit on a park bench for 7 years. I don't find houses of crack addicts and schizophrenics enriching. Phil is right that the main issue here is how we deal with drug and mental health issues (ie badly and on the cheap) but travel around Europe and you simply don't see these issues manifested on the street in the same way. I'm not nimbyish enough to want them 'swept off' somewhere else, but I struggle to take pride in it. And to stick up for Lucy and her shoplifting story, it's too long to detail here, but my conclusion was that it was exactly the sort of thing that anyone with any sort of public attitude should have done rather than looking for trouble.