That is comical, they really are a bunch of clowns! Have you seen the masses of people they employ to come down mob handed and check tickets, usually on the night of an Arsenal game. Surely it would be cheaper and a lot less annoying to put up some gates?
While I'm at it, I find it so annoying there is no way of topping up your Oyster card on the FP Station entrance to the railway.
On another thread someone mentioned new routes from the rail station planned for 2010 - any idea where they will go to?
i don't understand the stairs at finsbo... could they not just steepen the incline from ground level? the platforms don't seem all that deep.
and i'll only offer to help people with their pram up the stairs if it's a sensible sized one. i'm fed up of people with those immense SUV-size things with all-terrain tyres who (having taken up a crazy amount of space on the tube) stand at the bottom of staircases looking expectantly at everybody else (particularly at the guys of course). maybe you shouldn't have bought something so unnecessarily unwieldy, should you?
I still can't quite grasp that a lift costs £8m. For the cost of whacking a bunch of them in each tube station we could get a [Orbital Ring Space Elevator](http://seattlewebcrafters.com/nsecc/?q=node/view/115). Just think what that would add to the Finsbury Park transport hub.
@unaesthetic, should people buying buggies do a quick check with childless members of the public to see which size of buggy meets their approval for helping out at a tube station?
Maybe, having done their research, they know that A. those 'unwieldy' buggies are usually really lightweight, so, you know, knock yourself out... and B. the 'sensible sized ones' you deign to approve of are for older children and not suitable for newborns, babies etc.
Don't be a knob. Either help out or don't bother. But blame yourself for being selfish, not some random piece of equipment design. It's hard enough for those of us with young kids to get around London's liftless tubes without people blaming us for the problem in the first place!
@mattleys, I'm kinda with UA on this one, but I will always help. It's like I always help people with their luggage, but find it utterly intolerable that someone should go on a journey where they can't manage their own luggage.
In terms of the suitability issue, you don't see many second children in the unweildly ones which makes me suspect that the 'research' undertaken fails to keep all of the requirements in mind.
We can be tolerant and still have opinions.
I'll always give people a hand, no questions. Whenever I buy something though I generally make sure it is fit for purpose so if I have a car and can put a buggy in the boot with little drama, I'd go with whatever I wanted. If I used the tube all the time I'd get something a bit easier to carry up annoying stairs. As for the bags issue, makes me wonder how if you can't lift them up the stairs....how you got them onto the tube in the first place?
david - damn right. my mum had a single pushchair, which i was ousted from when my little brother was born, so i would have been 13 months old. it drives me crazy when you see four year olds (usually chubby ones) being pushed around...
and mattleys - it's selfish to take up that amount of space in the tube, surely, just to be a bit trendy with your armoured personnel carrier pushchair. it's also selfish to <i>expect</i> assistance wherever you go, and glare at people in a genuine rush etc as if they're not providing a service you've paid for or something. the same goes for the particular kind of woman who gets on a full tube carriage and then glares at all the men sitting down as if she has any more right to a seat than they do. i'll <b>always</b> offer my seat to the pregnant, the elderly, people on crutches and so on, but surely we've got past thinking that all females are weak and pathetic and must be waited on by any menfolk around them? it's the twenty first century, people!
<i>As for the bags issue, makes me wonder how if you can't lift them up the stairs....how you got them onto the tube in the first place?</i>
A clue: There are lifts / step-free access at some other stations. Notably Heathrow, which is where a lot of the folk with big suitcases will have commenced their tube journeys.
My mother-in-law has just been over from Tx. The only steps she encounters between the front door of her house and ours are the steps in the station at FP. She calls me from Heathrow and we arrange to meet on the platform. The times of her flights are always such that she arrives in FP in the morning rush hour and rarely has offers of help with her (admittedly, gigantic) bags.
Come come now people...! Not only am I not a woman (so what?!), but I never expect assistance on the tube. Sometimes, though, when planning a journey alone with kids (and believe me, I'd love to be able to afford to travel into central London by car whener I wanted), there are certain pinch-points that just can't be avoided. Like the steps at FP tube. What do you do? Go a different way? Not go at all? Or - like myself and almost every other parent I know - hope/figure that someone will help you?
And someone almost always does, and with very good grace, and of course we're really grateful for that. For all its dreadful reputation, London is one of the friendliest cities I've ever been to. But we also know that other people are walking past us telling themselves we're some kind of social pariah/selfish bastard/weakling/insert contempt-figure here. Whereas, in fact, we're just trying to get from A to B, like you.
Travelling with kids is tiring, hard work, stressful, blah blah. We don't expect or demand your help; the truth is, we're forced to rely on it. We're only there because that's the choice we're left with. But to everyone else, you know, thanks.
you yourself may not expect it. and i do try to help out where and when i can. i'm just turned off by the sense of entitlement exhibited by many people out there. and by those offensively large juggernaut prams.
You could've chosen to keep your stupid opinion to yourself. tosscat. Hope I don't bump into you at the tube. Don't think I'll bother contributing any more if that's the level of contribution I can expect!
I honestly don't understand what the problem is. So, I don't have children. But I see people all the time get on the tube with children in sensible size prams. They seem to be coping just fine. I also see three and four-year-olds walking (god forbid) on their own two feet, instead of being pushed in a pram the size of a Mini.
I'm not against prams, and I'm certainly not against children. Would like to have some of my own one day. (Both prams and children.) But surely there's a way to bring up your offspring without being a massive inconvenience to everyone else.
There are rules prohibiting bikes on the Underground during rush hour. Why not massive prams? Or if you're going to take up enough space for three people, at a time when space is at a premium, buy a second ticket. I bet this would make parents reconsider the necessity of owning a 4x4 pram.
<i>Or if you're going to take up enough space for three people, at a time when space is at a premium, buy a second ticket. I bet this would make parents reconsider the necessity of owning a 4x4 pram.</i>
Are discounts available for multiple occupancy of said pram?
_'because that's the choice we're left with'_
We make choices and live with the consequences. I've made some pretty unusual choices myself, but I'm not crying because no-one carries me down the stairs at Finsbury Park.
_'should people buying buggies do a quick check with childless members of the public to see which size of buggy meets their approval'_
should people having opinions do a quick check with childful members of the public to see which opinions meets their approval
Yes, it is the level of contribution you can expect from me.
i recently had to change from the viccy to the central line encumbered by two enormous suitcases, at rush hour. the raw hatred in the eyes of my co-passengers was the only upside to this experience.
I've always preferred child_free_ to child_less_.
mattleys, if you're still here, when moaning about the level of contribution perhaps consider yourself dismissing one opinion as stupid and the holder of the other opinion you didn't like as a knob.
I want mudwrestling, on the 29, with that pimp as referee. His efficient employees can go up and down the aisle as ring girls announcing what round it is.
Comments
While I'm at it, I find it so annoying there is no way of topping up your Oyster card on the FP Station entrance to the railway.
On another thread someone mentioned new routes from the rail station planned for 2010 - any idea where they will go to?
And if someone with a pram can't find a nice member of the public to help them up the stairs, hell in a handbasket must be fast approaching.
<a href="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/finsbury-park-brochure.pdf">details</a>
and i'll only offer to help people with their pram up the stairs if it's a sensible sized one. i'm fed up of people with those immense SUV-size things with all-terrain tyres who (having taken up a crazy amount of space on the tube) stand at the bottom of staircases looking expectantly at everybody else (particularly at the guys of course). maybe you shouldn't have bought something so unnecessarily unwieldy, should you?
Maybe, having done their research, they know that A. those 'unwieldy' buggies are usually really lightweight, so, you know, knock yourself out... and B. the 'sensible sized ones' you deign to approve of are for older children and not suitable for newborns, babies etc.
Don't be a knob. Either help out or don't bother. But blame yourself for being selfish, not some random piece of equipment design. It's hard enough for those of us with young kids to get around London's liftless tubes without people blaming us for the problem in the first place!
and mattleys - it's selfish to take up that amount of space in the tube, surely, just to be a bit trendy with your armoured personnel carrier pushchair. it's also selfish to <i>expect</i> assistance wherever you go, and glare at people in a genuine rush etc as if they're not providing a service you've paid for or something. the same goes for the particular kind of woman who gets on a full tube carriage and then glares at all the men sitting down as if she has any more right to a seat than they do. i'll <b>always</b> offer my seat to the pregnant, the elderly, people on crutches and so on, but surely we've got past thinking that all females are weak and pathetic and must be waited on by any menfolk around them? it's the twenty first century, people!
A clue: There are lifts / step-free access at some other stations. Notably Heathrow, which is where a lot of the folk with big suitcases will have commenced their tube journeys.
My mother-in-law has just been over from Tx. The only steps she encounters between the front door of her house and ours are the steps in the station at FP. She calls me from Heathrow and we arrange to meet on the platform. The times of her flights are always such that she arrives in FP in the morning rush hour and rarely has offers of help with her (admittedly, gigantic) bags.
And someone almost always does, and with very good grace, and of course we're really grateful for that. For all its dreadful reputation, London is one of the friendliest cities I've ever been to. But we also know that other people are walking past us telling themselves we're some kind of social pariah/selfish bastard/weakling/insert contempt-figure here. Whereas, in fact, we're just trying to get from A to B, like you.
Travelling with kids is tiring, hard work, stressful, blah blah. We don't expect or demand your help; the truth is, we're forced to rely on it. We're only there because that's the choice we're left with. But to everyone else, you know, thanks.
I'm not against prams, and I'm certainly not against children. Would like to have some of my own one day. (Both prams and children.) But surely there's a way to bring up your offspring without being a massive inconvenience to everyone else.
There are rules prohibiting bikes on the Underground during rush hour. Why not massive prams? Or if you're going to take up enough space for three people, at a time when space is at a premium, buy a second ticket. I bet this would make parents reconsider the necessity of owning a 4x4 pram.
Are discounts available for multiple occupancy of said pram?
@Poxy - Of course! It's just like carpooling.
It goes without saying that if you have two babies, you need a bigger pram. Also, if your child is disabled and can't walk.