A blue plaque for Ho Chi Minh

edited February 2010 in Local discussion
As any schoolboy knows, Ho Chi Minh once lived on Ferme Park Road.

A blue plaque for ho Chi Minh! How about it?

Comments

  • IanIan
    edited 2:02AM
    Red plaque surely?
  • edited 2:02AM
    Is that true. Fascinating. Which house?
  • Dunno. Was hoping someone could tell me.
  • edited February 2010
    Shame we can't ask Uncle Ho.

    I have a picture of him pinned to the board above my monitor.
  • edited 2:02AM
    I've been to Saigon. It's ace.
  • AliAli
    edited 2:02AM
    There is already a blue plaque at New Zealand House under his real name Nguyễn Sinh Cung
  • edited 2:02AM
    <http://tinyurl.com/yby6fx7>; Next to the Sports Cafe. No higher honour.
  • What was that awarded for, heroic feats in Patriotic Coffee Drinking, or a five year plan to grind beans?
  • AliAli
    edited 2:02AM
    Working as a waiter in the Carlton Hotel that used to be there
  • RNMRNM
    edited 2:02AM
    I went to see Uncle Ho last summer in his mausoleum. The amazing thing was that when I went to see Lenin (also pickled), their tombs were set out in exactly the same way. It seems that if you are a dead communist leader, you get bathed in orange light and there is a set rotation round the body.

    I shall be more excited by Ferme Park Road now I know that Uncle Ho was there. Sort of.
  • Hi everyone, thought it might be a good shout to start this thread up again - although I'm not a big fan of Ho and Diem, I also think it's important to remember some of the most important figures of history - would it be worth us getting in contact with local councillors and the head of the council (and even Lammy who lives around the corner) to get a plaque installed? Is there a body in charge of doing this?

    Without being too cheeky, with all the renaming of roads (black boy) and parks (albert park) going on in Haringey, it might be a good moment to remember a more diverse colour palette than just black or white, but also some famous Asians too no?

    I don't think the cost of a plaque would be too high.
  • Yes, but where? Address unknown.
  • An easier plaque would be for W Heath Robinson born next to the Faltering Fulback.
  • Is it a true story? Tried to find the details a few years back to no avail.
  • Lockdown project for the hive mind and expertise of SG Org.
  • @LukeG, can you give more information about the renamings to which you referred, please?
  • https://www.haringey.gov.uk/libraries-sport-and-leisure/culture/review-monuments-building-place-and-street-names-haringey

    Although I have no idea why they are now taking offence at Uncle Albert, it's political correctness gone mad.
  • This is what’s so idiotic about this prissy renaming nonsense. People can choose to believe anything about a place name whether through factual origins or utter ignorance. By now it just depends on which Albert you’d like to think it was named after: Victoria’s Prince Consort? King of the Belgians (that would be a bad choice, relating to the Congo)? Uncle Albert? Albert Herring? Albert Fish? And there are probably many noble Alberts in the histories of the German-speaking countries.

    As for Black Boy Lane, a petitioner writes, “…a road named to caricature and ridicule people who look like me.” — Clearly, the affront is in the imagination of the beholder.
  • From reading that, I don't think they are renaming Albert because it's offensive.
  • Will they be renaming Wightman Road too?
  • It seems like Black Boy Lane may be renamed La Rose Lane after John La Rose.

    John La Rose was a publisher, poet and essayist who founded the Caribbean Artists’ Movement and publishing company New Beacon Books, which has a bookshop in Stroud Green.
  • I think it's a bit of a waste of monies rn at around 100k just to rename the road.

    Would make more sense to ask the new developments in Haringey to rename the new roads and buildings with relevant historical names.
  • Around 100k!? Why/how so much, @LukeG ?
  • grennersgrenners Ferme Park Road, N4
    Even if it was £1 it would still be a waste of money.
  • I completely agree with not celebrating or perpetuating racism, but I feel a little uncomfortable about renaming it until the origin of the name has been properly researched. I believe several quite plausible explanations may exist: it could for instance have been named after the pub, which itself could have been named for Charles II, who was tall and dark and popularly nicknamed 'The Black Boy'.

    http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/stuart_3.htm

    A little far fetched perhaps but intriguing and a curiosity with no trace of racist intent. There might be other innocent explanations.
    However I can see I'm on a losing wicket on this one because perception is everything and if the combination of words 'black boy' is perceived to be offensive, that's that, really.
  • Okay, there are a number of costs included in this - but it's an estimate that's been made on the Harringay Online forum - and includes the Albert Recreation Ground renaming of about 50k each rename.

    The suggested renaming of a town hall in tottenham two years ago was predicted to cost about 21k on its own, and it was blocked, and that case was less complex than a road change.

    So here's a list of costs already and in the future:

    - Costs of employing several people at the council to create a full consultation and any materials related such as translating the consultation into 10 different languages, knocking on doors etc.
    - The time costs of the council leaders at several meetings in the past month to decide on new names and discuss the renaming of several roads and one park (Albert Park) in Haringey.
    - Legal costs and magistrates costs.
    - Admin costs and time of notifying the relevant authorities such as post office, maps etc.
    - Reimbursing businesses based on, or near Black Boy lane for admin costs of the change.
    - A suggested £300 per house on black boy lane for the 'inconvenience' of the change (no jokes, you can Google this)
    - Paying for new signage.
    - A whole new process is being setup at the council in the expressed wish to deal with further name changes and (possibly) statues in Haringey.
  • grennersgrenners Ferme Park Road, N4
    Complete waste of resources.
  • edited February 16
    Sent on 11th February 2021 via email to Tottenham Labour party members:

    On behalf of Tottenham Labour Party, I am asking you to spare a few moments of your time to take part in Haringey Council’s consultation on changing the name of Black Boy Lane, and to support the renaming of the street as La Rose Lane.

    The consultation closes on Friday 19th February, it’s a good idea to take part as soon as you can. For information about the consultation click here and to go directly to have your say please click here. [Link given]

    The initiatives by the leadership of Haringey Council on the naming and renaming of streets and buildings have been given impetus through solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement, and are supported by Haringey Stand Up to Racism as well as Tottenham Labour Party.

    Nandi Maseko, a young Black woman who attended a delegation to the Council in July, on behalf of Haringey Stand Up to Racism, expressed the issue eloquently. She said-

    “I went to Park View School and so I passed Black Boy Lane every day. I found it quite degrading. All my school friends could feel the racist and offensive connotations of the name. This no doubt had an effect on our self image as Black children.

    “Whatever the origins of the name, this is now a racist and offensive term. It should be removed and replaced by a name which honours those who fought racism and helped to build up this country. This will help promote dignity and pride in our community.”

    The Green King Pub chain has also agreed to change the names of several of its pubs which are called ‘The Black Boy’.

    John La Rose, who the new street name is proposed to commemorate, was described as the elder statesman of Britain’s Black communities. Before coming to live in Haringey, John La Rose fought for the freedom and independence of the Caribbean from the British Empire. His life and activity represented so many aspects of the movement we are part of - from organising and campaigning against racism, for socialism and workers’ rights, to his poetry and his great contribution to developing art and culture. When John La Rose died in 2006, Jeremy Corbyn put down an Early Day Motion in Parliament to recognise his life and his work.

    Some relevant links:

    Linton Kwesi Johnson's obituary of John La Rose:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2006/mar/04/guardianobituaries.soc...

    Film: Dream to Change the World - A Tribute to John La Rose (parts 1 and 2)





    Presentation by Haringey Stand Up to Racism:

    https://mcusercontent.com/bdd57c2076b534d8455e262cb/files/0ab3231d-...

    Please take part in the consultation, and help make sure that we make this important change before Friday 19th February . Here are the links again: For information about the consultation click here and to go directly to have your say please click here

    Yours comradely,

    Grace Abdo

    Acting Chair, Tottenham Constituency Labour Party
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