All purpose General Election thread

ADGS

To be clear, I think it far more likely that he's a useful idiot than himself a holder of the views his fellow hosts espouse. But if he is not keen on the regime, as that speech suggests, then why is he hosting a show on their propaganda channel? Would a "real process of engagement" with hawks in the US also see him host a show on Fox News? Somehow I doubt it.

andy

I thought it was rather a good speech.

twinspark

@Markpack @ ADGS

I think your queries are better asked of Arkady - my comment was response to hers that the Libs constituency map is a thin and fragmented spread that hasn't yielded enough seats for them to become a bigger political force. My point was who chose their target seats for 40-odd years and given their expertise on the geographical flaw in the system etc. etc. why couldn 't they addrress that and work with it as others did? Not groundless or lashing out - just a non-believer in Saint Nick and the Liberals.

markpack

@twinspark As I mentioned, the way our electoral system works is that it benefits parties whose appeal is to geographically concentrated people. For example, it benefits parties who appeal to steel workers (concentrated in some areas) over parties who appeal to milkmen (spread around pretty evenly).

Sure you can say to a party, "Why don't you change what you believe in and appeal to others instead?". But that's only part of the issue.

Why should we have a system that is so heavily loaded in favour of parties that appeal to geographically concentrated support? And given that we do, saying "Oh, it's the fault of the party without geographically concentrated support" seems to me is missing the real culprit.

Ali

Couldn’t believe what I read in Sunday Mail. There was a headline on page 2. “Labour to blame for Greek Crisis” On reading the story they were blaming the Labour Government of the 70s for not vetoing Greece on entry ! Tory press desperation. Thought Will Hutton had it about right in Sundays Observer.

Arkady

Agree with Ali about Will Hutton's article. It's here, recommended reading: <http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/02/nick-clegg-prime-minister-hutton>;

twinspark

@Markpack

You seem to have gone straight to the heart of the periphery on this one! All parties know the system well and could concentrate campaigns accordingly. The Liberals in particular as they have a tradition of reinvention in order to survive should have perfected this tactic. If they can't build regional strongholds in the same way as other parties then who should take responsibility for that - Parliament or the Libs. themselves?

Arkady

And you're repeatedly missing the point. Why should a party have to change its focus to develop regional and parochial strengths when the problem is with the electoral system? Labour do well out of it because they mostly appeal to the urban working class, the Tories do well because they appeal to the suburban and rural middle classes. Lib Dems have a broad appeal based upon their principles, why should they have to change them, or unjustly concentrate their membership’s money in certain constituencies, in order to get around that perverse electoral system? Surely better to stick to their principles and take the opportunity to push for electoral reform when the chance comes? I thought you were all for sticking to your principles.

dorothy

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twinspark

Haven't missed a point at all - No reason at all to change Liberal focus apparently. Except this is how the system can work in your favour and you develop support . [btw. Astounded by the use of 'urban working class' and the 'suburban and rural middle classes" tags- but no convenient tag for a Lib. voter - what year are we in?, very revealing though.] I'm sure your members would rather their funds had been concentrated in constituencies that delivered more seats pro rata. You don't want the Liberals to take responsibility for their own lack of performance but you would like them to have some authority to change the rules - all of the glory but none of the shame - that sounds like an opportunity Clegg would recognise.

Arkady

I want the Lib Dems to be responsible to their members and principles, not change them to get votes, especially not in a concentrated area. Their authority stems from their principles and the growing support of the electorate. If they were using tactics to get in via the back door – as your party are now trying to do - they would not get my vote. A

sincers

How 'bout a Triumvirate?

erehwon

Anybody noticed that the nicks of the majority of posters on this thread all start with the letter 'A'. All members of an international anarchist conspiracy, no doubt. Or is it something more sinister? The embryo of a new party, perhaps. Either way, I'm really bored with this election, will put a peg on my nose and a cross in the box.

If it changed anything, they'd make it illegal!

sincers

There's a story here about tribal politics, but I doubt anyone here will read it since it was in the Times: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article7116150.ece