Stokey Foxes

andy

So apparently, foxes are entering houses and attacking sleeping babies. Something almost entirely unheard of. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/10251349.stm>; I imagine this story will 'develop', as they say.

ADGS

As urban foxes got less and less scared of people, this was only ever a matter of time. Certainly it should reduce the level of urbanite support for the foxhunting ban, just in time for Cameron's proposed repeal thereof.

graeme

There was an episode of Cutting Edge a couple of years back about foxes in Stokie. Some daft couple were feeding them so they could film them. The neighbours kept chickens, and were not best pleased.

andy

Has a fox ever done this before? Ever? Go up a flight of stairs and attack two kids? This seems utterly without precedent. Obviously it's horrible for the family, but it's the sort of thing a dog might do, rather than a fox.

ADGS

Does it matter whether it's ever happened before? Assuming we've no creationists on the board, a key feature of all animals is that every so often, they do something new. And by changing habitat, urban foxes have already demonstrated that they are among the more adaptable of their kin. Even if this does turn out to be a dog, doesn't prove that a fox will never do it. If they can recognise London kebab discards as food, they can certainly spot that a baby is.

andy

Occam's Razor suggests that when your choice is between a very very remarkable thing, or a quite simple thing, one's first preference should be for the simple thing.

ADGS

Occam's Razor was created by a mediaeval theologian who believed that the world was fundamentally an unchanging place. Forgetting that key flaw in what was really only ever a codification of common sense - and as such, every bit as limited as common sense - has previously led to such unworthy spectacles as Ben Franklin preferring to think that other scientists were liars (a simple thing, true enough) than that meteorites could fall from the unchanging heavens.

ADGS

Sorry, Jefferson, not Franklin. I am prone to getting my Founding Fathers mixed up if I go online before my second cup of tea.

andy

your point?

ADGS

Occam's Razor is not all it's cracked up to be, having been founded on a set of assumptions now almost universally discarded, to wit, that between the events described in the rest of the Bible and those in Revelation, nothing really changes. We live in a world where new things happen every day, we know that's nonsense. And Hell, even the mediaevals knew that foxes were crafty wee buggers whose deviousness and hunger knew no bounds.

Additionally - a lot of the fox 'experts' I'm seeing quoted as saying this sort of thing never happens, seem more like fox 'fans' to me. The BBC had one on saying that few foxes would even dare take on a cat - this is not the experience of cat-owners I know.

In conclusion: it's not surprising, and even if it were, so what? Surprises happen.

miss annie

Also not all that surprising as it has happened before. A fox got into a house and bit a baby in Kent a couple of years ago.

I know 3 people who have cats that have been attacked by foxes too - one cat lost an eye. I think that us townies are in danger of forgetting that nice as it may be to think of foxes trotting around the place like they're in a Disney film, they are still wild animals on the look out for easy food opportunities.

Marquis

Absolutely.

missisclack

And shit in our backgarden every night. Nothing we've tried can deter them, not Silent Roar pellets (lion shit stink) or one of those high pitched squeaker things. The garden stinks then the shit festers and grows hairs. Gross.

helen

Of course if we didn't have the foxes the rat population would exponentially multiply overnight.

Seems to me the occurrence of foxes entering homes is rare, the chance of an attack far rarer. the poo stinks, they make a bit of a din sometimes but frankly i still quite like having them around.

If they'd only deal with more of the rats (who are far more likely to walk in through your back door) then i'd be even happier.

Ali

I think Cat shit is more of a problem in our garden than the fox version. Cats also annoy me because a lot of people seem to be in awe of them as nice little cuddly animals when in reality there are far too many of them around and they go about killing wildlife for fun ! At least in most cases (young children excepted) Foxes are actually hunting for their lunch. I think the introduction of wheely bins a few years back must have made it more difficult for foxes to find food as there are not as many black bags with food in them about the place.

Tallboy

Do foxes eat rats, or does their presence just scare the rats away? I much rather have foxes in the vicinity than rats.

helen

my rat man has given me the order of predator

rats eat the mice (rats will also take on and win against cats as well he tells me)
squirrels will take on a rat and generally win
foxes will take on rats, squirrels (kill more likely than eat similarly to dogs/terriers) and will happily eat kebabs and chips

so, foxes are both the super-predator but are also smart enough to eat a kebab on the way home from the pub if feeling a bit tired

i like to think of them as urbane foxes

andy

<img src="http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l3qzqbvLOD1qzqoo2o1_500.jpg">

sorry

ADGS

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/10276286.stm">A picture of a fox in the house shortly after the attack</a>, in case anyone's still feeling a bit conspiracy theory. Now, obviously the fox could still be the victim of a frame-up by local feral dogs working in concert with the Countryside Alliance...or it could just have been snacking on some tasty infants.

nick_m

@missisclack - i reckon your problem is with cats, not foxes. You're more likely to find cat turd and hair in your back garden than fox. Either way, if you think it's foxes, get a bloke (apparently works best, and is more practical) to go out in the cover of darkness and take a piss in the corner of your garden (preferably on the compost heap, if you have one), and if it's cats, try diluting a little citronella oil with water and spraying it around.

Emma

Well, hold on ADGS, that doesn't actually prove that fox did anything does it - the picture is of an animal in someone's back garden, which happens all the time (the BBC story is ambiguous in the description and the photo certainly isn't clear, but it looks to me like the fox is outside and the policeman inside). I don't think there's any reason to suspect the kids *weren't* hurt by a fox, but a mobile phone pic the like of which is posted all over the internet on a daily basis is hardly proof.

missisclack

Thanks Nick. I'm going to REALLY enjoy ordering him indoors to go piss in the garden! We don't have a compost heap, but we'll work something out.

Just read the citronella tip on the wildlife thread too. Going to pop out now and buy me some.

Thanks!

Ali

If you have a lemon tree make him do it there as it will flower !

ADGS

<img src="http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/6/10/129207126240792800.jpg">