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She says the Stapleton Hall Tavern was never inside the Tudor manor house (as claimed in the book I have) but has always been on the site of the present pub at the bottom of Crouch Hill - it goes back to at least 1735, when it was 'The Green Man'.
She wrote: "A surveyors' map made when Stroud Green Road was getting built up in 1868 (Stapleton Hall Road was laid out a few years later) clearly shows `Stapleton Hall Tavern' exactly where the pub is today, in the intersection between the beginning of Crouch Hill and the just-being-laid-out Mount Pleasant Road. Stapleton Hall itself is a good hundred yards away.
"The Green Man at Stroud Green was registered as an inn in 1735 and may have been there some time already. The inn-keeper, Mr Rogers, died in a fall from his horse while riding home from Islington in 1759 and his widow had changed the name of the pub to Stapleton Hall Tavern by 1765, when a meeting there for the `Ancient Order of Stroud Green' was advertised, and again in 1767. The related `Corporation of Stroud Green', with its joke mayor-and-aldermen evidently met there again in 1773, which is the date of the inscription on the back of the medal you have seen. That's your connection."
It is likely one could similar spurious assertions for longevity claims for other buildings shown on that map)
More evidence needed .. how about the eminent Ms Tindall gets to the some land records to back this light-weight assertion.
The reason that it is now generally accepted by Hornsey historians that Stapleton Hall and the pub were never one and the same building derives, indeed, from land records, which indicate a series of tenant farmers in Stapleton Hall throughout the eighteenth century.
Yes, there were other Green Man pubs in the general area north of London, which is why one needs to be careful.
GT.
In the Victoria County History (see note 1) we read: <I>Known as Stapleton Hall, it stands near the north-west end of Stapleton Hall Road [...]. In 1765 it was licensed as the Stapleton Hall Tavern</I> ([according to] M.R.O., MR/LV8/40) (see note 2)
[...]
<I> It was the Stroud Green Conservative club by 1888</I>.
Notes:
(1). <I>Victoria County History : A History of the County of Middlesex: Volume 6: Friern Barnet, Finchley, Hornsey with Highgate</I> by T F T Baker, C R Elrington (Editors), A P Baggs, Diane K Bolton, M A Hicks, R B Pugh (1980), at pp.146-49. Available at: www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22522#n55 ; consulted 7 December 2010.
(2). M.R.O. Middlesex Record Office. On the incorporation of Middlesex within Greater London on 1 April 1965 the office became known as the Greater London Record Office (Middlesex Records), now the London Metropolitan Archive.
The Victoria County History (VCH) was founded in 1899 and originally dedicated to Queen Victoria, the VCH is an encyclopaedic record of England's places and people from earliest times to the present day. It is without doubt the greatest publishing project in English local history, having built an international reputation for scholarly standards. Based at the Institute of Historical Research in the University of London since 1933, the VCH is written by historians working in counties across England. Available at www.victoriacountyhistory.ac.uk/NationalSite/Home/Main ; consulted 7 December 2010.
.
I would also point, as further evidence that the VCH's normal checking systems went on the blink at this point, that Stapleton Hall is not at the north-west end of SH Road but the the south-west one.
GT.
See below The Song for the Ancient Corporation of Stroud Green which is perhaps what they sing when leaving the Sugar Lounge?
'The Corporation's Song'
The Song for the Ancient Corporation of Stroud Green appears in Fraternal Melody a song book of 1773, by a certain William Riley also containing, among many others, 'A Song for the Corporation of Grays inn Lane', and 'An Ode for the Corporation of Southwark'.
Among the subscribers to this song book are: Robert Grant, jun, Recorder of the Ancient Corporation of Stroud Green; Sheriff Richardson of the Ancient Corporation of Stroud Green; Sheriff Whittow of the Ancient Corporation of Stroud Green.
Song for the Ancient Corporation of Stroud Green
Set to Music by the Author
Ye Sons of Jollity and Mirth
Of each denomination,
Attend, while I declare the worth,
Of Stroud Green Corporation:
Tho' weak my Verse, 'tis strictly true,
And Free from adulation,
The praises then let me pursue
Of Stroud Green Corporation.
To fair *ASTREA's name we pay
Respect and veneration,
Of her we tune the vocal Lay
At Stroud Green Corporation
Long may She here with us reside,
And know none alteration
+May She still flourish far, and wide,
Like Stroud Green Corporation.
* Justice
+ from the motto of the Corporation
Justitia floreat, ut noi ab origine
When met to take a cheerful Glass
In mutual recreation,
How sweetly do the minutes pass
With Stroud Green Corporation:
Each Alderman his quota pays
And that's in moderation,
No longer than he like, he stays
With Stroud Green Corporation.
For Albion, happy would it be,
Were those in higher station,
From Brib'ry, and Corruption, free
At Stroud Green Corporation;
But such high Crimes we're taught to shun
At out Initiation,
Which, brighter than meridian Sun,v Makes Stroud Green Corporation.
The mirthful Scenes we here enjoy
Exceed all expectation,
And Pleasure, which do never cloy,
Attend out Corporation;
For to improper Company
We ne'er give invitation,v Lest they disturb the Harmony
Of Stroud Green Corporation.
What *ORDER can with this compare,
And boast such regulation?
Or such immunities does sharev As Stroud Green Corporation?
In Brimmers since there's no deceit,
Take each a fit Potation,
'Twill make our happiness complete
At Stroud Green Corporation.
*or Society
May Peace and Plenty ever smile
Throughout the British Nation,
And Pleasure all our cares beguile
At Stroud Green Corporation;v Here's Health, Success, prosperity,
To this Association,
Fill ev'ry Glass, and drink with me
To Stroud Green Corporation.
I trust the Stapleton is already planning Stroud Green day (wenches included).