Oyster Extension Permits

Emma

<i>Technically it's true that you can be charged a penalty fare (or even prosecuted!) for failing to get an OEP although posters to uk.transport.london seem to suggest this is not being implemented on the ground. As long as you touch in and out you *will* be charged the correct fare - the problem is just if you encounter an inspector en route he has no way of knowing whether you're a fare dodger or whether you genuinely intend to touch out at the far end.</i>

I got an overground train from Finsbury Park to Winchmore Hill last weekend; I have a zones 1-2 travelcard on my oyster but also money on there for when I go outside zone 2. I touched in at Finsbury Park. There was a ticket inspector on the train and he checked my Oyster, and was perfectly happy that I had touched in at FP and was going to Winchmore Hill. No mention of an OEP at all.

I have to admit I'm not completely sure what the rules for all this are so I've probably completely misunderstood what Roy was saying.

Arkady

I get the impression that it's only enforced if people have a travelcard that does not include Zone 1, and then exit at a Zone 1 station. Even then, not always. I've been paying attention recently and always seem to pay the correct fare if I go beyond my zone.

Arkady

<http://londonist.com/2011/03/oyster-extension-permits-to-be-scrapped.php>; Sorted.

Roy

Yes! I (mis)read that earlier this evening on uk.transport.london as "OAPs to be scrapped" (!)

Roy

Incidentally, it appears I was overestimating the intelligence of the Oyster system in my post above.

I had assumed that if you were careful to always touch in and out you would prevent the system from getting confused as to which you were trying to do, but no, it can get confused anyway (at least at Finsbury Park).

A few weeks ago I had to make a brief visit to Stroud Green Road. I travelled from central London to Finsbury Park tube on my Oyster card (which has aZone 1-2 Travelcard loaded on it) and I made a point of touching out at Finsbury Park (even though I normally wouldn't bother).

Ten-to-fifteen minutes later I needed to travel from Finsbury Park to Zone 3, so I tried to touch in at Finsbury Park station - I needed to touch in since I was travelling outside my zones - but the system still thought I was trying to touch out.

I has assumed that by touching out at the end of my first journey the system would realise that I was no longer within the system, and therefore allow me to reenter, but no. The only suggestions that the staff could make were to wait 20 minutes before travelling or to take a bus!

-roy

sg_mike

It's worse than that. If you get off at Finsbury Park (touching out), then walk up to Crouch Hill to get the train afterwards within - I think - an hour, when you touch in there you'll get charged again as if you're exiting at zone 3 station even though you've walked there. And that's before you make any journey from Crouch Hill. Golden rule - don't trust TfL and the PAYG system.

Roy

@sg_mike: when I posted on uk.transport.london someone explained that Finsbury Park station is set up to allow touching the readers on interchange.

This sort of makes sense if you're interchanging between tube and National Rail because the two parts of the station have separate entrances on Station Place, so it's plausible that someone might interchange that way, and think they should touch out and in again at what appear to be two separate stations.

Crouch Hill is another ungated station, so has standalone readers which have to guess whether you're exiting on entering. (Gates always get it right, since they know which way you were going - it's just the standalone readers that are problematic, I think.) So the system thinks you interchanged at FInsbury Park and then exited at Crouch Hill. (An implausible journey of course, but the system isn't intelligent enough to know that.)

The moral of the story: always pay attention when using standalone readers as to whether they say "ENTER" or "EXIT", and if it seems to be confused check your online journey history and claim a refund if you've been overcharged.

-roy

SimonB

Confirmed on the TFL website

"From 22 May 2011, if you want to travel beyond the zones covered by your Travelcard on National Rail services within London you won't need to set an Oyster Extension Permit on your Oyster card before you travel. Until then, if you travel beyond the zones covered by your Travelcard without an Oyster Extension Permit you may be liable to a penalty fare or prosecution."

mikecabic

I travel all over london on the weekends for rugby, generally out to zone 4-6 going south, west or north, to such lovely destinations as Staines, Feltham, Uxbridge, Greenford, Barnet, Barnes and Finchley ( a mix of NR and TFL). In all that time: * I have never seen an inspector * Tried to buy an extension permit to a z1-2 permit once, and worked out it cost more than simply buying a ticket... Its all massively confusing and pointless and a massive bunfight betwen a bunch of private companies to screw as much money out of the system as possible for the minimum possible level of investment. FACT

Arkady

Now that's over, any one want to see the new combined tube & rail map,replacing the two separate versions currently in use by NR and TLF? <http://www.dragondark.co.uk/lr/tubeandrail.pdf>; It replaces the old train line colours with those of the train operators, and loses the details about train frequency and terminuses. Which strikes me as stupid.

Roy

@Arkady: Is that map set to replace the current Oyster Rail Services map?

Arkady

Yes. That one found in TFL stations: <http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/oyster-rail-services-map.pdf>; And also this one found in National Rail stations: <http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/maps/London_Connections.pdf>; ...will be combined into the one above.

graeme

So instead of two separate maps to cover the tube and rail networks you can now get by with...two separate maps, one that shows the combined tube and rail routes, and another map just of rail routes that includes the 'Only Mon-Fri' type info .

Genius.

[Looks forward to folk waiting on platforms 1 & 2 at FPK trying to get to Old Street on a saturday night...]

Someone at TFL must have shares in the printing company.

Arkady

Not quite. Both were combined maps before. But they had two different designs, one by TFL and one by NR. The tube-only one remains. Now they are combined. But the old TFL Oyster Service Map showed train frequency, and also emphasised the terminus of each line. Both are missing from the new map. In exchange we get the train operating companies actual colours. More likely to be the TOCs fault, but TFL shouldn't have agreed to it.

Roy

@Arkady: I'd always assumed that the Oyster Rail Services map _was_ the replacement for the old London Connections map - I didn't realise the latter was still current. It makes sense to have one map. Though I don't quite understand why, from all the various versions of these tube/rail maps, they drop the stepfree access (disabled symbol) that appears on the standard tube map. -roy