Labour Islington Council wants 20 mph speed limits

Arkady

Quite, ActionVerb, quite.  I should have known better than to bother.<br>

andy

If you draw a box that has Hornsey Road, Hanley Road, Stroud Green Road and Tollington Road as its edges, everything inside that border is now a 20 mph zone. <div><br></div><div>As a result, it is now covered in speed bumps.</div><div><br></div><div>We looked at the stats (when the speed bump consultation came out) and there had never been an accident on any of those roads. Plenty of accidents on the main roads, but none inside the box. The roads are too narrow, so traffic is naturally calmed by the parked cars.</div><div><br></div><div>So in most cases, this is solving a problem that simply doesn't exist. It only exists in theory. You don't have to be pro-motorist or anti-council (and i'm neither) to see that spending time and money on a problem that doesn't exist is a waste of time and effort.</div>

NorthNineteen

Andy: I presume the issue here was at least in part that once Hanley Road was traffic calmed there would be a potential issue of rat-running occuring on the roads you mention.  The folly of the excessive road spending by councils is now coming back to haunt them.<br>

andy

True, but most of the rat-run blocking is done by the no left/no right turns for precisely that reason.<div><br></div><div>It's just layer upon layer of half-made, half-justified solutions.</div>

Ali

That must be what they spend the CPZ money on

Papa

I lived on Regina Road, it was mercifully free of rat running, as Andy pointed out the right turn left turn restrictions generally stopped that. It was also too narrow in general for people to speed on, as the parked cars on both sides slowed people down.<br><br>If anything people actually did more speeding after the bumps were introduced, as they would brake then accelerate dramatically rather than doing a constant slower speed. I have no stats to prove this but I saw it every day with my own eyes.<br><br>The bumps also caused massive disruption when lorries or large vans used the road, problems with people's houses thanks to vibration and saw the road surface around them deteriorate rapidly - as you spot next to most speed bumps - which is expensive, unsightly, dangerous for us cyclists and bad for people's cars. Oh and then there was the bit where people voted overwhelmingly against them and got them anyway.<br><br>People do more than 30mph on Hanley Road because it is so wide, the introduction of a 20mph zone on it has not slowed the traffic - even the bus drivers speed down it.<br><br>The one place they do slow down is the light up warning sign, which works very well and the one there definitely slows people down - that's what we need more of.<br><br>To be honest, I'd rather the council spent money fixing the lethal holes in the roads which are putting far more cyclists lives at risk than a vanity project for their officers and councillors to claim 'first all 20mph zone in the universe.'<br><br>It's not just the risk of the potholes throwing you off your bike and injuring you, its the sudden appearance and need to avoid them that shoves you in front of traffic. There is a nice mine shaft developing at the Hornsey Road / Tollington Park traffic lights next to The Plough, which is particularly dangerous.<br><br>@N19 - the issue was they couldn't get 20mph zone funding without putting in bumps - the whole consultation was a sham. Those value stats are fascinating, where are they from.<br><br>@Arkady - I didn't know that about the Thames crossings, that's interesting<br><br><br><br>

Ali

<P>This kind of backs what your saying</P> <P> </P> <P><A href="http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/news/scotland/-/20mph-speed-limits-are-great-value">http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/news/scotland/-/20mph-speed-limits-are-great-value</A></P>;

NorthNineteen

@Papa L<br><br>They are from the transport appraisal bible, AKA WebTAG (Web Transport Appraisal Guidance).  It is used to appraise transport schemes especially if trying to obtain funding from the DfT.  It's a bit of a monster at I think 1,000+ pages<br><br>http://www.dft.gov.uk/webtag/<br><br>;

chrisn4

<P>papa l - makes a good point about speed humps or traffic cushions,they do cause noise nuisance to householders as cars slow down applying the brakes making noise,then speed away from the speed humps;and also creating noise as the underside or bumpers of cars or vans crash into the speed bumps if vehicles are low to the ground and perhaps even causing cracks in the walls of homes by the road calming humps . But perhaps that is the price that we pay for saving a local kids life who wanders into the road in n4</P> <P>andy - just because there were no accidents happening in the location of n4 that you describe doesnt mean an accident wasnt likely to happen there,perhaps because locals have flagged up to the council a trend for drivers to speed in the roads that you describe.So arguably the council was correct to install speed humps where you describe.Perhaps this was the lib dem council before the current labour islington council that put in speed humps where you say?</P> <P>Many people say that it is just selfishness that makes people turn against speed humps or 20mph the idea that they just dont want 12 points on their liscence and to get banned so then they cant drive any more for a period of time.</P> <P>Not a bad utilitarian argument.The greatest good for the greatest number of people...  </P> <P> </P> <P>   </P>

chrisn4

<P>most liscenced london taxis,black cabs,are on 3 to 6 points on their liscence.If you get 12 points you get banned from driving.And points stay on your liscence for 3 years before being removed.most taxi drivers in london use a tom tom sat nav which bleeps when a speed camera or camera on the traffic lights is appraching so they can slow down and avoid points on their liscence.you can even get an app on the i phone which tells you where speed cameras are.however many liscenced taxi drivers get tired at the end of the day and they drive 30mph over tower bridge (or somewhere else with speed cameras that do you for going over 20mph) and then they get a fine for breaking the speed limit of 20mph.then they have to contact their union to get their solicitor to go to court to try and plead with the magistrate not to give them points for going 26mph in a 20mph speed limit wasting their time when they could be earning money and worrying them and their family that they could loose their livelihood.</P> <P>if the council are putting the 20mph speed limit on main roads - then at night this is going to cause a hazard as slow 20mph drivers are overtaken by speeding drivers - who think its safe to overtake due to lack of people on the street and cars on the road in the middle of the night.Perhaps the council should put 20mph limit in the day and 30mph at night...</P>

andy

Papa L's whole post is spot on. There is cracking and vibration and poorer road surfaces as a result of the bumps. And no-one wanted it.<div><br></div><div>By this logic, we should also have a Bear Patrol. Bear Patrols are heavily armed teams of two or three men who will walk around Islington. If any bears should walk into the borough and attack children, the bear patrol will shoot them. Studies have shown that areas with bear patrols have fewer bear-related accidents. I would hate it if one day a schoolchild was eaten by a bear. A Bear Patrol will cost £1m per year.</div>

Arkady

I thought Detritus was our Bear Control officer.<br>

chrisn4

<P>arent illegal immigrants and asylum seekers terrible?</P> <P>they hang around paddington station all day long...</P> <DIV id=contentSub></DIV> <DIV id=jump-to-nav>Jump to: <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddington_Bear#mw-head"><FONT color=#0645ad>navigation</FONT></A>, <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddington_Bear#p-search"><FONT color=#0645ad>search</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr lang=en class=mw-content-ltr> <TABLE style="BORDER-SPACING: 2px 5px; WIDTH: 22em" class=infobox cellSpacing=5> <TBODY> <TR> <TH style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; BACKGROUND: #dedee2; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 125%; FONT-WEIGHT: bold" colSpan=2>Paddington Bear</TH></TR> <TR> <TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" colSpan=2> <DIV class="thumb tright"> <DIV style="WIDTH: 222px" class=thumbinner><A class=image href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PaddingtonStation-PaddingtonBear.jpg"><IMG class=thumbimage alt="" src="http://1.2.3.9/bmi/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/PaddingtonStation-PaddingtonBear.jpg/220px-PaddingtonStation-PaddingtonBear.jpg" width=220 height=271></A> <DIV class=thumbcaption> <DIV class=magnify><A class=internal title=Enlarge href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PaddingtonStation-PaddingtonBear.jpg"><IMG alt="" src="http://1.2.3.9/bmi/bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.18/common/images/magnify-clip.png" width=15 height=11></A></DIV><A class=mw-redirect title="Paddington Station" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddington_Station">Paddington Station</A>: Bronze statue of Paddington Bear, by <A title="Marcus Cornish" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Cornish">Marcus Cornish</A></DIV></DIV></DIV></TD></TR> <TR> <TH style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" scope=row>First appearance</TH> <TD>October 23, 1958</TD></TR> <TR> <TH style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" scope=row>Created by</TH> <TD><A title="Michael Bond" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bond">Michael Bond</A></TD></TR> <TR> <TH style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; BACKGROUND: #dedee2; COLOR: #000" colSpan=2>Information</TH></TR> <TR> <TH style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" scope=row>Species</TH> <TD><A title=Bear href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear">Bear</A></TD></TR> <TR> <TH style="TEXT-ALIGN: left" scope=row>Gender</TH> <TD>Male</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> <P><B>Paddington Bear</B> is a <A class=mw-redirect title="Fictional character" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_character"><FONT color=#0645ad>fictional character</FONT></A> in <A title="Children's literature" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_literature"><FONT color=#0645ad>children's literature</FONT></A>. He appeared on 13 October 1958<SUP id=cite_ref-0 class=reference><A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddington_Bear#cite_note-0"><FONT color=#0645ad><FONT size=2><SPAN>[</SPAN>1<SPAN>]</SPAN></FONT></FONT></A></SUP> and was subsequently featured in several books, most recently in 2008, written by <A title="Michael Bond" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bond"><FONT color=#0645ad>Michael Bond</FONT></A> and first illustrated by <A title="Peggy Fortnum" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Fortnum"><FONT color=#0645ad>Peggy Fortnum</FONT></A>. The polite immigrant bear from Deepest, Darkest <A title=Peru href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peru"><FONT color=#0645ad>Peru</FONT></A>, with his old hat, battered suitcase, <A title="Duffle coat" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duffle_coat"><FONT color=#0645ad>duffle coat</FONT></A> and love of <A title=Marmalade href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmalade"><FONT color=#0645ad>marmalade</FONT></A> <A title=Sandwich href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich"><FONT color=#0645ad>sandwiches</FONT></A> has become a classic character from English <A title="Children's literature" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_literature"><FONT color=#0645ad>children's literature</FONT></A>.<SUP id=cite_ref-1 class=reference><A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddington_Bear#cite_note-1"><FONT color=#0645ad><FONT size=2><SPAN>[</SPAN>2<SPAN>]</SPAN></FONT></FONT></A></SUP> Paddington books have been translated into thirty languages across seventy titles and sold more than 30 million copies worldwide. Over 265 licences, making thousands of different products across the United Kingdom, Europe, United States, Southeast Asia, Japan, Australia and South Africa all benefit from the universal recognition of Paddington Bear.<SUP id=cite_ref-2 class=reference><A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddington_Bear#cite_note-2"><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0645ad><SPAN>[</SPAN>3<SPAN>]</SPAN></FONT></FONT></A></SUP></P> <P>Paddington is an <A title=Anthropomorphism href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropomorphism"><FONT color=#0645ad>anthropomorphised</FONT></A> <A title=Bear href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear"><FONT color=#0645ad>bear</FONT></A>. He is always polite—always addressing people as "Mr.", "Mrs." and "Miss" and very rarely by first names—and well-meaning, though he inflicts hard stares on those who incur his disapproval. He likes marmalade sandwiches and <A title="Hot chocolate" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_chocolate"><FONT color=#0645ad>cocoa</FONT></A>, and has an endless capacity for getting into trouble. However, he is known to "try so hard to get things right". He is an adoptive member of the (human) Brown family, and thus gives his full name as <I>Paddington Brown</I>.</P></DIV> <P> </P> <P> </P>

Brodiej

44 comments in 12 hours, only 20% your own. <div>Subject: 20mph speed limits<div>Chrisn4 - you've still got it, thats possibly a better return than the recycling thread</div><div>Carry on</div></div>

miss annie

chrisN4 Your comments about taxi drivers are simply not true. Mini cabs maybe. I wholeheartedly approve of Paddingtpm and only wish that there was a 'hard stare' button to press online. Carry on

Ian

I agree with PapaL and Andy. Farce consultation where majority supported 20 but opposed bumps completely ignored through bad maths and a disgraceful use of a three way question. Bumps only put on the roads where there were no accidents causing disruption in quiet streets and all for 20mph on Hanley Road that isn't enforced. Councils at their worst. I might FOI whether anyone has been fined for speeding on any of the roads affected. I suspect a trap has never been put up. It's an expensive ramp driving thrill for company owned van drivers.

Ali

<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri size=3>I would say that the speed humps work in Victoria and Florence Road as that used to be a racing track rat run.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>The previous slowing down measures just didn’t work.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri size=3>It is quite<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>a while since<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>a car speeding along Victoria has gone straight across<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>Stapleton Hall <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Road and hit the poor wall on the other side.</FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 10pt"><FONT face=Calibri size=3>It used to be a regular event</FONT></P>

Papa

I'll second the Bear Patrol, but I think we need Wolf Guards too and Hat Inspectors.<br><br>I'm sure a Keynesian economic justification could be added to the moral argument and safety need to prevent bear and wolf attacks and dangerous hat injuries.<br><br><br>

miss annie

If I was a hat inspector I'd ban those hideous 'I've been to South America/Camden Market' hats with the plaits hanging down.