could islington council's 20mph speed limits lead to more rta?

chrisn4 · December 2011

sg.org's ADGS wrote this "put speed bumps outside primary schools and people will slow down.but the more speed bumps out there the more you dilute the effect and the more likely that kids get injured or die".ADGS wrote this on an old thread called "islington council:crouch hill improvements/hanley rd 20mph zone."

chrisn4 · December 2011

if islington council get tfl to let them put 20mph speed limits on all main roads that the council controls;and the residential roads are already 20mph.then other london councils could do the same as islington council and put in 20 mph speed limits on all roads.ultimately the whole of london could potentially become a 20mph speed limit zone. using ADGS's argument the more streets become 20mph speed limit zones the more likely drivers on these streets ignore the speed limit. so the streets in accident black spots or outside schools may not get the benefit of 20mph speed limits as drivers are fed up with the amount of 20 mph zones all over london so ignore 20mph speed limits where these speed limits were once beneficial...

chrisn4 · December 2011

one aspect of 20mph speed limits is the cost of installing 20mph speed limit signs on lamposts in islington.at a time when islington councils budject is cut by central government.this would cost thousands of pounds which could have been spent on cleaning up the streets etc... many people would say if the majority of streets in london are 20 mph speed limit roads in future then that would be a good thing as some drivers will stick to 20 mph speed limit causing a queue of slow driving cars behind them so cars travel slower on average and so less likely to cause damage to pedestrians and cyclists than faster moving vehicles. difficult to know what is right...

miss annie · December 2011

Money raised from parking fines can only be used for road and traffic issues, I guess that's where money will come from. Councils aren't legally allowed to spend it on anything else, hence the constant roadworks all over Islington and the rest of London.

chrisn4 · December 2011

thanks miss A,they dont call you the Sarah Lund of sg.org for nothing... sarah lund is a sort of danish sherlock holmes type - who wears the same jumper alot...in the killing.. on tv... i hope you lot are all paying attention to this and appreciating my reporting...i give lot alot of good stuff 2 disagree with and throw you toys out of your pram about...a bit devils advocate... but it provokes discussion.. p12 this weeks islington gazette,it says police say plans to make speed limit 20mph on all islington roads is unrealistic as drivers will ignore the 20mph speed limit without speed bumps which cant be introduced on main roads as they might impede emergency services...

yagamuffin · December 2011

" police say plans to make speed limit 20mph on all islington roads is unrealistic as drivers will ignore the 20mph speed limit" Wow, just wow.<div> </div><div>I guess we should repeal most laws then as a lot of people just ignore them.</div>

ADGS · December 2011

The information I quoted - from when I did a bit of work with a road safety research project - applied to speed bumps. Assuming that speed bumps and 20mph limits are one and the same thing was the council's mistake; chrisn4, you may oppose their policy but you're working from the exact same foolish first principle as they were. Mercifully, now all the borough's roads are going to 20 limits, the yoking of limit to bumps appears to have been dropped. As such, I am at present neutral on the issue.

boxrunner · December 2011

@chrisn4 "so the streets in accident black spots or outside schools may not get the benefit of 20mph speed limits as drivers are fed up with the amount of 20 mph zones all over london so ignore 20mph speed limits where these speed limits were once beneficial..." No, because by that logic no speed limit is ever going to fulfil it's job. The whole Country operates a residential speed limit of 30mph, but we don't object to that on the grounds that motorists get tired of it and so will ignore it. That's when you get a ticket for speeding.

Ian · December 2011

Just dawdled down Hanley at 20mph. Pulled over and Islington CCTV car raced past me at a fair lick. I suspect it was well above 20 given how quickly he caught up on the car behind me. Last week a bus pulled sharply away from me as I kept to the limit. Basically the whole thing is pointless unless they are going to enforce, and I suspect the Police have advised Islington privately that they are too busy to do that. In case of doubt - I'm in favour of the limit, against speed bumps and for enforcement. At the moment all I have are disruptive speed bumps that people voted against.

chrisn4 · December 2011

"the whole thing is pointless unless they are going to enforce" islington council would argue that even if 20mph speed limits are not enforced by cameras or police then they are still worth it because some people will obey the 20mph speed limits which will cause a queue of traffic behind them,thus lowering average speed on roads,lowering average speed means less liklihood of deaths/injuries to people. but then if other councils copy islington council and majority of london streets 20mph speed limit not tests done to see if the majority of roads are 20mph if this will increase or decrease deaths,just because 20mph zones cut deaths ie near schools doesnt mean will do same if majority of rds are 20mph black cab drivers wont like 20mph speed limits on main roads that islington council control as their customers will be complaining to the drivers to speed up and cabbies will have cyclists overtaking them on the inside/outside and then cabbies run over the cyclist in their blind spot

chrisn4 · December 2011

on the issue of road safety...in camden, incamden high st and in kensington high st in w london the councils took out street furniture,such as barriers which cut pavements off from road and other clutter.this had the effect on kensington high st of cutting road traffic accidents.it works on the driver psycologically.the driver sees the street as more open with less barriers cutting off the pavement from the road and he slows down as he sees that pedestrians can step into the road where they could not before as behind a metal barrier on pavement.they call it "bare streets" or something or "naked streets" - as street furniture n signs removed... i wonder if islington council has done this or would consider doing this like kensington high st we dont object to 30mph speed limits as that is not an unreasonable speed limit but 20mph perhaps is unreasonable especially for business people trying to get a job done on time

chrisn4 · December 2011

from wikipedia - its called "shared space" A scheme implemented in London's <A title="Kensington High Street" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_High_Street">Kensington High Street</A>, dubbed naked streets in the press – reflecting the removal of markings, signage and pedestrian barriers – has yielded significant and sustained reductions in injuries to pedestrians. It is reported that, based on two years of 'before and after' monitoring, casualties fell from 71 in the period before the street was remodelled to 40 afterwards – a drop of 43%.<A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space#cite_note-23">[24]</A>

ADGS · December 2011

Haven't Islington already embarked on something like that around the SGR/Seven Sisters junction? Though a) that could have been Haringey and b) they could certainly go further. Still - that has nothing to do with the 20mph limit one way or the other.

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could islington council's 20mph speed limits lead to more rta?

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