Bad taste to burn 'sir jimmy savile' as 'guy' on bonfire nite?

ChangN4N6

We are going to the Lorne Rd bonfire Party (nr the flats) but organiser Steve told in WLM last night that the 'guy' - as it 'appens - will be done up to look like charity worker and fallen idol Sir Jim. I never liked him, but this feels a bit off. Or am I being too fussy? Chang

ADGS

Par for the course, isn't it? Burn the folk devil of the day. Lewes are the modern masters of this, everyone from British politicians through Osama to the Daleks has gone up in flames there in recent years, and I imagine Jimmy is on the cards for this year. 

kreuzkav

we love you we love, we hate you we hate you we hate, fall fall the idol.  

Detritus

<p>Problem being we will never know, he is dead and everything will be one sided there is no chance for him to protest his innocence, he looks guilty as sin but he can never be found guilty.</p><p>I don't fully understand why not one of the seemingly 100's of people who had a idea that he was doing something wrong did not speak out back when he was doing what it is alleged he did.</p><p>I might be wrong but I don't get what good this will do anyone now, there can never be justice and if (i doubt it) it turns out to be a pack of lies mud sticks.</p><p> </p>

kreuzkav

As someone who knows about a family secret,I have witnessed the most loving parents ignore a child abuse situation because they didn't want to cause a problem for others.  My reading is that Jimmy Saville like many other abusers wasn't just a physical abuser but a mind abuser.  He knew how to play the game.  He built power as a night club manager in Yorkshire.  Knew how to deal with people who questioned him.  I believe he used this and his charity work to mask his evil behavour.  He knew how to manipulate people and to make sure if anybody tried to grass he would pull strings to stop it.  That's why many people only feel happy to report him now he is rotting in his grave.<div><br></div><div>If he was an abuser I hope there is a big police investigation.  I hope all the people who were hurt by him finally have a chance to speak and come to terms with the evil he did to them.  And if you don't understand this why is their therapy, memorials to the fallen......... Because we are not machines that can switch off to abuse and carry on if nothing has happened.  Sometimes people do just that but I think there's is always a shadow.  </div>

Detritus

<p>It sounds like he did a lot of evil things but we will never know for sure because he is not around to put his side of the argument.</p>

kreuzkav

But you'd have to be a big conspiracy theorist to think all these people have made this up.<div><br></div><div>Old fashioned male power is a strong thing and I think jimmy saville knew how to use it in a very evil way.</div><div><br></div><div>These women and men need a space to express their hurt and lay it to rest.  Please allow them this.</div><div><br></div><div>It is not trivial.  They were very afraid when he lived. Abuse is very powerful.</div>

Detritus

I do not think they made it up and I agree that the women have to express there feelings, but I do not see how it can be resolved as it can not go into the judicial system so there will be no "victory" for them. There is nothing that can be done about that.

miss annie

I understand why the people he abused might not want to speak at the time but, as Detritus says, it seems that it was common knowledge among his work colleagues and worse, the staff at the hospitals and other institutions he visited. Those are the people that should now be made to answer questions about why they allowed it to continue. It is all bloody awful and my sympathies are with those abused and with his family. Interestingly there is evidence (some from his own mouth), that John Peel was at it with schoolgirls during his time in the US. But because people seem to think he is some kind of middle class liberal god, it doesn't seem to matter. Why the double standards? And whoever the hell gave Jimmy Savile the keys to Broadmoor needs locking up there themselves!

kreuzkav

I'm not a tabloid reader or into people setting on celebs, but I think the issue is he used his charity celeb status to abuse.  If it is true that he did so (?)  I agree with you Annie that adults shouldn't have allowed him to get away with this but my it looks very evil and the 70s culture shouldn't be an excuse.  And John Peel always was a bit of a dick too!  Always banging on about the Wedding Present and George Best.<div><br></div><div>I think a lot of people especially Tories can't accept that their working class aspiring saint could be so evil!</div>

ChangN4N6

I'm not sure I would say 'evil' - arent adults who are sexually attracted to adolescents in the grip of some compulsion (horrible though we find it, and terrible though the effects may be)? The worst of JS is that he had such fame as the opposite - the ultimate people's friend. Some pundit said he 'hid in the light ' which was spot on. It will be interesting to see if St John Peel (another people's friend) is spared the bonfire treatment, I suspect so. He never played Gary Glitter records after all.

ADGS

John Peel's getting his name stripped from a building, so it's not like he's getting off scot free. But I think there's a difference between someone not fighting off an underage groupie (like pretty much every musician of the sixties and seventies), and someone systematically abusing their position to take advantage of underage people in hospitals, young offenders' institutions, children's homes...

Roy

To go back to the original question - burning an effigy of Guy Fawkes is equally in bad taste, as is burning an effigy of anyone.<br><br>Don't do it.<br><br>Certainly don't bring up your kids to think that the way to deal with problems is to chuck people on a fire.  In a civilised society, we just don't do that.  It's gross.  And pretending to do that (for 'fun') is only marginally less gross.<br><br>roy<br><br>ETA: Bonfires are fun.  Bonfires with a subtext of 'and we're pretending to burn someone' are just creepy and wrong.<br>

ADGS

When it gets party political, I can see your point. When it's theocratic terrorists and child abusers, though, (and Daleks) I see no great harm. Only burn in effigy people you'd be sincerely happy to see burned for real. 

ashman

Screw pedos. Theres no excuse. They should dig him up and burn him for real.

Roy

"Only burn in effigy people you'd be sincerely happy to see burned for real. "<br><br>That's the thing.  I have a real problem with the idea that burning someone for real is *ever* justified.  There is no-one I would want burnt for real, let alone to *see* burnt for real.<br>

kreuzkav

Jimmy Saville was a always a joke.  Even as a kid I found him scary.  Lots of other kids I knew did too. Many people too him seriously, like Thatcher and other 'let's shift the welfare state onto charity' crew.  They even decided to let him run institutions.  And this was at a time of loony left (and I agree there was a loony left), but what about the loony right.  Anyway, I'd prefer if he just rotted in his grave, although digging up his gravestone was a good thing.  I don't think Jim can fix that now.  He fixed a lot of things in his time but.....<div><br></div><div>Jerry Sadowtz knew the score but the establishment dissed it:</div><div><br><div><a href="">

ADGS

Though to be fair, are there any celebrities Sadowitz *hasn't* accused of paedophilia &c?

rrjlondon

<p>I gather there has been a run on Savile outfits in readiness for Halloween.</p>

ChangN4N6

Just saw the newsnight report -excellent- and now feel the Lorne rd crew can burn stuffed version old sir jim and prob get praise not dissed. Pity in a way cos he raised so much money for spinal injury kids and also even met the Pope once .hope to see some good people there on 5th. Chang

kreuzkav

I think if people can learn anything from this is that establishment is not to be trusted.  All the royals, Auntie Beeb are hollow shells made into sacred beings by a gullible public.  I think the Guy should be replaced by the BBC and the royals.  The simulacrums of our hidden society.

ADGS

The Pope and Sir Jimmy: two men with bad dress sense and a love of bling, fond of kiddy-fiddling and cover-ups. Bet they got on like an orphanage on fire.

kreuzkav

@ ADGS.  I never knew they hung out together.  I agree the Pope, whichever one you're on about had bad dress sense and have tended to side with child abusers.  Let's add the Pope's effigy,(generic one) to the bonfire. Burn baby burn!

yagamuffin

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">After seeing Panorama last night and reading between the lines of what they didn't say I think this scandal is going to be supplying effigy's for bonfires for years to come. They made that school sound like a paedophile playground for the rich and famous. I think they mentioned it was frequented by everyone from TV personalities to minor Royals.</font>

ChangN4N6

Sad that the Brixton lot burned a doll of lady t and sir jimmy last night . He may deserve it if he really did it with those kiddies but maggie was not entitled to that treatment or to be associated with jim (although they were friends at some point) Chang