Tory Party Conference

Sutent

Just to say thank you for all those people from Islington who came to the Tory party conference on Sunday. It was a long day, but so satisfying standing side by side with 100,000 people and fighting the Tory scum. Its a shame the BBC and other news organisations failed to report the event. <div><br></div><div>Listening to George Osborne plans for the long term unemployed again is an example of the vindictive bullying of the most vulnerable in society. </div>

Arkady

Phew.  When I heard you were going to the Tory conference my heart sank.  Quite a relief to hear why you were there.<br>

Detritus

Love being called scum, it makes my week. I fail to see how making people do community work for benefits is bullying. Why should they do sod all and get paid for it? I think it's a good policy and about time things were changed.

yagamuffin

Although I would normally do everything to distance myself from the Tories I have to agree with Detritus, George Osborne's plans does seem on the face of it like a fair idea. Also, <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24346929">Iain Duncan-Smith's plan</a> sounds like a good and fair idea.

Arkady

I haven’t formed an opinion on the work-for-benefits business yet. But I do wonder how it differs from socialism, where the state ensures full employment by using general taxation to pay people to do jobs that wouldn’t exist in a free market.

Sutent

Its complete exploitation. You might as well put yellow stars on the unemployed and send them to unemployed concentration camp. We can all point our fingers at them and laugh at the lazy scrounging unemployed. We the working are so worthy. The data shows from America by forcing people to do these voluntary jobs does not increase their chances of employment. And with them getting nothing it works out at £2 per hour which is complete exploitation. <div><br></div><div>The reason people are unemployed is there not decent jobs which pay a living wage for people to do. The aim of the government is turn us against each other. Benefit and unemployed scroungers , immigrants- taking our housing, NHS and jobs. The real scroungers are getting away with it. </div>

Arkady

You’ve pretty much lost me with your hyperbole, Sutent. But while you’re at it, I’d like to see a link to that data from the US? Indeed any evidence about this would interesting.<br><br>Like I say, I’m uncertain about this. I haven’t seen the details of the policy... are there any yet? But I’m not sure I’m opposed to some of the sort of community/voluntary work that is so desperate for additional support being done by people on benefits, who might develop new skills in the process. Again the socialist thing – from each/to each. If people can continue to contribute to society when on unemployment benefit, shouldn’t they do so? Really not sure, I can be persuaded either way, but I don’t think that it would be victimisation - let alone Nazism - to suggest so.<br>

Sutent

Arkady - I can't seem to find the USA publication. <div><br></div><div><a href="http://blogs.ncvo.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/guest/volunteering_during_unemployment_kamerade.pdf">http://blogs.ncvo.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/guest/volunteering_during_unemployment_kamerade.pdf</a></div>;

Detritus

Utter crap, I stopped reading what you had put after seeing your comment about concentration camps. Any why a yellow star? Are all the unemployed Jewish? If people need benefits then it's correct that they get them but the long term unemployed should not just pop into a job center every 2 weeks and get money, they should do something to earn theat right. Let them pick up litter clean up dog shit maybe they might learn something. Anyway I am off to steal sweets from children and laugh and point at the needy.

NorthNineteen

Out of interest, why do certain parts of political spectrum (particularly the left) think it's ok to describe certain people as scum?<br><br>Is there anything comparable that Tories call Labour supporters?<br>

Arkady

Detritus - a reasonable counter-argument is that you accrue the <i>right </i>to unemployment benefits through your taxes when you *are* working.  Only a tiny percentage of unemployed people have never worked.<br>

Detritus

I agree Arkady, people who pay into the system have a right to benefits but after 2 years on benefits then something has to change, I am not saying take the benefits away, nor do I like the idea of people having to attend a jobcentre everyday, but something useful for the community is a good idea.

Sutent

People are desperate to work. There are no jobs that is the issue. Thank you for your arrogant comment treating the unemployed like second class citizens and making them pick up dog shit. Its the division in society that makes me really sad. Its people right at the bottom and the most vulnerable getting punished for something they had nothing to do with

digistu

Um...  the BBC did cover it:<div><br></div><div>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24286582</div><div><br></div><div>And it was featured on the hourly news broadcasts on 5Live throughout the programme of Sunday football coverage.</div>

Sutent

For a major national protest the media coverage was very poor. Hence Andy Burnham letter to the BBC

Detritus

I have been unemployed and if someone had said to me the way to keep my benefits was to pick up dog shit I would have, it's nothing to do with arrogance, you know nothing about me or how I think or where I grew up and saw first hand the utter incompetent way the labour council ran things. The arrogance card can be turned on its head, you started out calling Torys scum, is that not arrogance? Or is everything you say and feel correct and other people's thoughts and ideas wrong as that is how it looks, and that IS arrogance.

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Sutent

The health and social bill 2010 is the most nastiest tory policy. I have been an oncologist in the NHS for 10 years now. The health contracts have been sold to many companies who have tory donors on the board and care provided as cheaply as possible for the health consortium to purchase. A recent push for the media to report NHS failings and continuous underfunding to turn the public against the NHS. I hope you have health insurance. United health (USA 2nd biggest health insurance company) waiting in the winf

Sutent

They should do those jobs for a decent wage which they can sustain themselves. Not blackmail and bully them and threaten to take benefits away. We are dealing with humans here and must treat people with dignity and respect

Detritus

I don't care if at the Tory Party Conference they say that the devil will come and force feed me sprouts everyday nothing will make me vote Labour I just don't trust them.

Detritus

Just like Blair did when taking us into war in Iraq he was very dignified in the way he misled parliament and obviously respected the 1000's of people who marched to protest about it.

Arkady

There are other parties Detritus.  Ones that, unlike the Tories, have a chance of winning in your ward/constituency.<br>

Sutent

Detritus how can you trust the Tories? They are bank rolled by the city. They don't care about average people only their mates and their deep pockets. I am not a labour fan but surely better than Tory or ukip?

yagamuffin

Sutent, arguing against the rampant privatisation we have see from the Tories and Labour over the last 30 years is very different to this unemployment issue.<div><br></div><div>As for being paid to do this menial work like a proper job, well they could do that but then no-one would actually choose to do the work and it would end up being another job filled by some poor bastard from Eastern Europe.</div><div>I struggle to see an argument against forcing the long-term unemployed in to doing something in return for their benefits.</div>

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Detritus

Because I saw first hand what labour followers do, I remember being spat at in the street and called a scab just because my dad was a policemen during the miners strike and we happened to live in a pit village. And of cause the labour party is fully upfront and honest about the links to the unions. Or have to be now after getting caught out. I just trust the tories always have and probably always will, I could see myself maybe voting lib dem but never ever labour thay say what they think you want to hear.

Sutent

Its complete exploitation yaggamuffin. Its mainly in towns where whole industries have been destroyed. We need to invest in our people and not forcing them to pick up rubbish against using blackmail. The benefit expenditure on unemployment benefit is only 13% of total benefits. Its a small figure like foreigners who steal free NHS treatment. We are being made to turn against each other especially point our fingers at the poor and vulnerable. We point our fingers and laugh at "chavs" on Jeremy Kyle. There is massive anti chav sentiment in the UK and a lot of these people are from unemployed families who would love to work. Meanwhile the real thieves are laughing all the way to the bank while the unemployed are made to pick up dog shit

Detritus

But if the poor and vulnerable who all own huge dogs picked up after it in the first place...

andy

Well this has gone well

Detritus

Lol

Detritus

Sorry but to call someone scum just because you don't like who they vote for is just ridiculous.