Tube strike

kreuzkav

'The great only appear great because we are on our knee, let us rise'  James Larkin <div><br></div>

Roy

Re war zone: Yes, most of us did make that effort, I'm sure.  At my workplace I think we all made it in, with very few of us being significantly late.<br><br>I don' see what's wrong with sharing our experience of what transport options worked well or less well, given we're going to have to do it all again tomorrow.  And unless Boris and Bob agree to talk, we'll have to do it all again Wed/Thu next week, too.<br><br>roy<br>

miss annie

Hello Roy! Kreuzkav, you are wrong to assume that only rich people travel, and I'm fairly sure we've had a similar discussion before. I think (although I may be wrong), that Sutent told us he was going away for work related things. I've been to SF several times, I chose to spend money left to me in a will on travelling instead of something more practical. I know Vetski goes because she has a friend living there. Once you get there it's cheaper than many places in Europe. You tell us you spent a long time in Berlin. We to assume that you were living off a trust fund on an extended gap year, funding your travels by subletting your social housing or just sold your chichi Internet start-up? No. So stop making assumptions about everyone else.

NorthNineteen

My take:<br><br>- a lot of hyperbole from both sides<br>- Bob Crowe is looking very silly for some of his stances, plus a little embarrasing with all those background stories<br>- the fact Boris hasn't met the unions/Bob Crowe in the last however many years is pretty poor<br>- I can see why TfL/Mayor is suggesting the staff changes: mainly cost saving<br>- I don't really understand (specifically) why the unions are striking, is it job cuts, staff safety, passenger safety? There message isn't very clear - apart from the Boris is anti unions<br>

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miss annie

Does Boris have to meet Bob Crow? Surely these sort of negotiations are done by a specialist team not the Mayor himself? If I was Mayor I would go and meet that permatanned hypocritical gasbag, just for the opportunity to punch him in the big greasy chops. Nice public spirited info board at Putney tube today, 'We are on strike. We don't care if it takes you longer to get to work or costs you more money. WE DESERVE MORE'. If I can work out how to post it here I will.

NorthNineteen

I think he should be meeting Bob Crow, transport is by far the biggest part of his porfolio as mayor and this strike is having a massive impact on transport.<br><br>Was it this? <a class="short-url" href="http://bit.ly/1jhVZ5w">bit.ly/1jhVZ5w</a>

miss annie

No, it was a photo my sister took this morning.

NorthNineteen

In which case, way to create public support!<br>

Idoru

This is probably a better way to create public support: http://londonist.com/2014/02/tube-revenue-strikes-friday-and-next-week.php

kreuzkav

@ Miss Annie. I was referring to the criticism about Bob Crowe going to Brazil. You're right, about travelling. I've visited friends in the States too. And I worked when I lived away. I didn't make any money from sub letting.

kreuzkav

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">I'm for and against the tube strike.  On one side I hate Bob Crow and his cloth capped smugness.  His protection of an overpaid driver workforce. On the other side, I think the strike is right because London's tube system is very busy and intensive and the oyster system fails on numerous occassions  due to both technical and personal reasons especially at non-ticket barrier stations like Finsbury Park.</font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">This article from the more conservative rag The Evening Standard is good on the dialectic:</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/simon-jenkins-its-easy-to-blame-bob-crow-for-tube-strike-but-hes-just-doing-his-job-9106361.html</font></div>;

gardener-joe

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Sutent

Why does everyone focus on how much tube drivers earn. They do a bloody difficult job and are responsible for our safety. Big companies are allowed to pay poor wages which are subsidised by the tax payer.

miss annie

The tube is massively subsidised. Drivers on the new Victoria Line trains only have to press two buttons to 'drive' the train. One is for closing the doors and one is labelled Start to get it going. There is nothing else to do as everything else is automated. There is no driving on new trains. I do think it is unfair that they are paid more at entry level than teachers, police and nurses/doctors.

kreuzkav

Miss Annie, agree with you they are overpaid for a job that requires very little skill and no degree.  I'm a post grad and earn so little.  I know Miss Annie we've had this discussion before.  I could have been in a high paying job but decided to live a vagabond existence despite being top of the class through my primary and secondary education.<div><br></div><div>I think the issue is that Bob Crow and his union are the last ones standing in the union business.  As the ES article stated they get what they want and they feel why not. After all the city boys do the same, play the system for what it is.  And they didn't just cause chaos for a few days but for years while their leaders earn big money still.</div><div><br></div><div>And on a personal level Miss Annie, why do you and others go on about my sublet all the time.  I don't think you understand that some of us don't see property as a way of making easy money.  It never crossed my mind when I went away for a year.  I'm not a council tenant and my tenancy agreement allows me to sublet. A friend stayed paying rent and bills and my social landlord met and agreed to it.  You conservatives don't get it.  Some of us have ideals.  We're not looking to make a buck off everyone. Over the last twenty years I've known numerous friends who have done this. Sublet their social rented flats to friend and in return they look after their stuff  and pay their bills...What world do you live in?</div>

miss annie

The one where despite earning slightly less than half of the £40k a year a tube driver earns I still have to find the cash to pay market (unsubsidised) rent. What gives you the idea that I see property as an easy way to make money? I frequently yammer on about the iniquity of buy to letters, greedy landlords etc. The idea that owning a house (which you don't own until you've paid for it), is the be all and end all is bonkers to me. I think non extortionate renting is the way forward for a sensible society .

Sutent

I have a fantastic union the BMA. They have negotiated a fantastic pay and pension deal for doctors. They are very powerful and guess what we haven't been hit by public sector pay freezes or pension snatching.

kreuzkav

@ Sutent good to know.<div><br></div><div>@ Miss Annie.  I know you are against greedy landlords.  Just got upset as I did make an idealistic choice and kept things legal and non-profit when I went away.  It's why I've gone mental in the past on here.  I was made an offer which would have meant making a grand a year but I refused. And to be honest my flat was fairly run down then and I just wanted an easy going friend who had returned to London living in it and minding it while I was away.  </div>

kkqd1209

@Sutent - I have sat on BMA committees in the past, and we have been hit by the public sector pay freeze and our pensions have been re-negotiated. The BMA is influential sure, but not immune to wider political issues.

Roy

In case anyone missed the news, two more tube strikes planned:<br><ul><li>The first strike from Monday evening to Wednesday evening next week.</li><li>The second strike the following week, from the evening of the May Day Bank holiday until Thursday evening.<br></li></ul>Planned services look much the same as last time: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/strike-advance-travel-advice-28-to-30-apr.pdf<br>;

Sutent

Best of luck to the tube drivers

Roy

Well, I thought the strike is really about station staff and ticket offices, with the tube drivers just joining in for the sake of solidarity.  Although all the talk of driverless trains is hardly going to help get the drivers on side...<br>

dion

Best of luck to the millions of people trying to get to work to earn a living

miss annie

Quite. The millions of low paid workers who can't work from home (cleaners, retail, pub staff, waiters etc.), or jump in a cab to get to work. Most of these will not get paid if they are late or can't get to work. Very little sympathy for incredibly well paid, unskilled staff of LU from this group. I have no idea what everyone else's experience of ticket office staff is but outside of morning rush, when they are topping up Oysters, they seem to spend their time reading, chatting and wandering about.

Detritus

Sack them all, people shouldn't be allowed to hold the city to ransom.

checkski

The drivers are well paid, not sure about all the other tube workers. But - correct me if I'm wrong - this strike is not about pay. From their point of view, it is surely about jobs. 1000 -1700 will be lost, I heard. Voluntary redundancy? I doubt it. From our point of view, I think there are two main concerns: 1) safety, in a driverless train. For example, I believe the driver (and there are no guards now, are there?) had a vital role to play in the aftermath of the London bombing - have I got that right? And 2) what's the betting there will be no-one there, above ground, to help people with special needs, eg the blind? It depresses me that the understandably angry reaction to the consequences of a strike is so often directed at the workers themselves, who are often described as overpaid (how would it help eg cleaners, if drivers were paid less?); lazy (in my day, we teachers were told to be grateful for the long holidays, whenever we were on strike); unskilled. Does Miss Annie have inside information about the skills of the various workers at FP? And about their pay? I certainly haven't, and would feel bad about criticising them on any of those counts.

checkski

Detritus popped in while I was laboriously typing all the above. He and I will never agree about trade unions, I'm afraid!

Sutent

Tube drivers/staff get fantastic pay and they deserve every penny of it. They are an example of how a profession when they stick together can get the best deal. Instead of criticisiing them we should use their example to make sure people in this country no matter what job they do have a right to a dignified life, food education, housing etc. The justified reason for this strike has been well documented, but TFL have failed to negotiate and gone back on written promises. The anger should be directed at TFL and not the workers. 

miss annie

Actually I did know someone, admittedly about five years ago, who left the shop job he was working in to go and work at LU. The skills he had as a checkout assistant were sufficient to get the job, he just had to learn to use the ticket system and was paid a huge amount more. Things may have got massively more complicated since then, but as Oyster self service machines mean that people do most of the service themselves, I doubt it. Wasn't it Red Ken who first mooted the closure of ticket offices?http://questions.london.gov.uk/QuestionSearch/searchclient/questions/supplementaryquestion_13046