D'Angels - Replacement shop

kreuzkav

@ Miss Annie.  My issue is with people using the Torah, Bible, Koran to claim land and rights and to tell people what to do.  For example, the Israeli state is based on biblical rights. Some Christians believe a woman is a second class citizen due to some quote in a book of fiction. Homophobia is justified ..................<div><br></div><div>If people want to believe in Tolken's Lord of the Rings or some fairy tale, that's okay,  but please don't use it to claim land or be bigotted.  </div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

miss annie

<div>I'll leave it to others to debate Israel and Palestine.</div><div><br></div> Don't get me started on how Western fairy tales portray women as weak, victims or property, fortunately the wonderful Angela Carter did some fine work on those.<div><br></div><div> There are plenty of non religious people who believe that people who are not of the same gender, race, sex as them are second class citizens. Slavery still exists. The rage of lapsed Catholics always reminds me of the evangelism of ex-smokers. <div><br></div><div><br></div></div>

kreuzkav

@ Miss Annie. Agree with you on the way women are portrayed in fairy tales.  

Sutent

I have little time for religion, but I don't care what people do as long as it doesn't interfere with my life or discriminate against people. Unfortunately religion does both. One day I will be allowed to go shopping before 10 am on a Sunday or after 1700. I don't understand why religion doesn't need to follow employmemt law, where certain jobs are not allowed based on your sex or sexuality. And as I have mentioned before my forced circumcision in other walk of life would be child abuse.

Mirandola

There's a difference, though, between 'I dislike this particular way in which a particular religion affects the world' and 'religion evil, all believers fools'. I don't agree with bishops sitting in the House of Lords, but that doesn't make St Augustine dumb or Desmond Tutu unwise.

kreuzkav

Sutent, you're so right.  It's odd that a religion that forbids tattoos allows boys/babies to be mutilated.  Then nothing surprises me about the stupid logic of religion.  And apparently some supermarket workers are allowed to not serve alcohol.  If I ever go into a supermarket and someone refuses to serve me alcohol due to their religious beliefs I'll shout the shop down.  

Sutent

@kreuzkav -people should be allowed to practice religion and should be protected within the laws of the land to do that. Some religious laws are not compatible with everyday society such as contraception etc. The alcohol one is a difficult one. There should be some sort of sign at the checkout so you can go to another one. Minors below 18 cannot sell you alcohol without the approval of a supervisor. It right that marriage should be available to everyone

kreuzkav

I've been vegetarian since I was a kid and I have worked in jobs (bars and shops) in the past where I have served meat products. If everyone in shops stopped serving stuff because of various beliefs where would it end.  I'd stop serving people tabloids, expensive skin care products.........................................Mayhem would occur.<div><br></div>

Arkady

@MissAnnie - but they comfortably demonstrated that the Higgs Boson exists, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson#Confirmation_of_new_particle_as_a_Higgs_boson.2C_and_current_status">this time last year</a> at CERN.  It doesn't require a leap of faith.  They had a theory, they tested it, it was right.  

Papa

@kreuzkav your comment about using religious books to claim land etc implies the problem - to draw that inference out into what I think the problem is.<br><br>It is not people's faith or believe in a god that causes problems it is people using religion to gain power.<br><br>Religion and people's faith, be it Christian, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism etc is largely a force for good in the world  (for every person using it to control there are countless more using it to be nice to people) sadly, like many other concepts the ideas do get corrupted and used for bad means by bad people.<br><br>A bit like democracy, socialism, and having a few sensible restrictions on parking.<br>

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kreuzkav

Papa, so true.  I actually like the teachings of Jesus. Sadly Roman Catholicism took them into strange territory.  The debate sprang from the attitude of religion about tattoo.  I'm very dialectical (hence why I like Walter Bejnamin).  Truth, if there is any springs from debate.  

kreuzkav

And I think Misscara has illustrated a good point. We all have various beliefs. Do they have to belong to organised religion to be acknowledged.  For instance,  I believe that my child should have his thumb nail cut off or my daughter should cover her hands.<div><br></div><div>I don't agree with value relativism.  Ethics are about what is wrong or right.  A religion doesn't have the right because it's religous to break humanist ethical rules.  </div>

Sutent

We live in a tolerant society where people are allowed to follow their beliefs (no matter how misguided we think they are) and there are laws to protect them. Employment law thankfully prevents discrimination.

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R&J

I came into this thread hoping there'd be some useful info on what kind of shop would be appearing. Oh well<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>

Jonathan

R&J on that topic there's no licensing or planning application appeared, so not somewhere that is going to serve booze (like a deli probably would!) or indeed something like a bar or restaurant. Beyond that no information yet!

dion

As long as no one sets fire to it.... 

Mirandola

There's some pricey looking brass lights gone in, so my guess is posh rather than not posh.

kreuzkav

I noticed that this evening.  Another trendy deli or eaterie.  I'm glad I'm leaving this area.  It's becoming boringly middle class.

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kreuzkav

Somewhere that isn't London.  I've had it.  As Brodiej advised, it's best I get out of here. I've been slowly going mad over the last few years.  

ChangN4N6

We noticed . Yorkshire is very nice . But unless you go to Bradford you won't escape the middle class. Chang

Sutent

@Chang stop being rude<div><br></div><div>@Kreuzkav. We will all miss you if you go. Come for a drink at the social this month</div>

kreuzkav

Chang, there's a guy about 60, grey long curly hair who walks up and down Stroud Green road with a stick in one hand and a beer in another. I'm sure at one stage he was an idealistic man but now has turned into an alcoholic eccentric.  I don't want to turn out like that.  I'd advise you to take action too.

ChangN4N6

Fair comment . But London is least of my problems and apart from few wankers and too many cats I like it. What did Simon cowell say? 'When a man is bored with London he is bored with life' that was on TV and it sounds good to me. But happy travels. Chang

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kreuzkav

Thanks Chang.  Wasn't it Samuel Johnson who said that and it was a few hundred years ago. London has changed a lot since then.  I'm bored of financial money wankers who have taken over the city and now they're parading around Stroud Green.  I've been planning to leave for a while and it's time to stop being stubborn and just go.  There is life outside of this over-priced city.  <div><br></div><div>Sutent.  Thank you but I think I've dug a hole for myself and if I turned up at a social I'd be be a figure of curiosity or fun.  I think most of you are lovely people so maybe it would be nice.</div><div><br></div>

Sutent

@Kreuzkav. It will be fun and would be great to meet you. No one will childish enough to be a bully. I promise to buy you a drink!

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