Finsbury Park Regeneration Timeline

poxy

Interesting... http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/timeline_for_major_finsbury_park_regeneration_revealed_1_3687503 Especially, the last paragraph.

gardener-joe

...

Arkady

This is interesting, especially the reference to the 'park', by which they presumably mean creating a proper square outside Charter Court as has been mooted here from time to time. The plans to renovate the bridges are more advanced, judging by the exhibition earlier in the year. Irritating that the article fails to link to the timeline that it refers to. I can't find it, anyone else had any luck?

Jonathan

@Arkady I think it's pp21-158 of this document: http://democracy.islington.gov.uk/documents/g2272/Public reports pack 16th-Jul-2014 18.30 Executive.pdf?T=10

Arkady

Thanks Jonathan.  Very interesting.  Looks like there will be some one-day trials to close Station Place to buses, and use the space for one-off events,

Papa

They plan to spend £100,000 doing this:<br><br>'Trial the removal of buses from Station Place to allow one-off events to take place in the public space'<br><br>It's a bus station, for people using a mainline station and one of London's busiest tube stations. It is conveniently placed outside the train / tube station and I have seen no other sensible suggestion in any of these documents of where to put the buses that won't block the main roads. <br><br>There's also a massive park over the road for one-off events.<br><br>The justification is here: 'Lastly, some respondents objected to the proposal to create a new public space at Station Place and the removal of the bus station that would facilitate this. However, as more comments were received in support of creating a new public space, this remains an aspiration in the SPD.'<br><br>Which conveniently ignores the common sense observation that the wider public not only rarely bother to reply to these consultations but it must be even rarer still that they decide to fight for a bus station. This would imply that some properly considered thoughts on traffic and public transport planning (mainly surrounding where to put the buses) might need to carry more weight than an unspecified number of votes for the Finsbury Park Street Drinkers Plaza.<br><br>I can't believe I'm getting so riled by the potential loss of a bus station I rarely use. <br>

Ali

The public feedback seems  to be that Rowans should stay.<br><br>I am sure the "Events" would not be during the week or rush hour but at weekends.  Blackstock Road and Green Lanes seem to survive when they close for Events.<br><br>Can the first one be a mini  FP Taste Style event<br><br><br>

Papa

But would the park not be a more sensible destination for that?

Arkady

@Papa L – I’m awaiting confirmation, but I wonder whether the closure of Station Place going from pie-in-the-sky to actual trials indicates that TfL have indicated that they think it’s practicable. I wonder whether they can create a permanent solution by slightly broadening the Seven Sisters Rd pavements (as they have already done at the crossing by the Arsenal Shop) and introducing bays to prevent disruption to traffic. I know that’s the proposed solution at Euston. If it can be done with minimal disruption then I’d imagine most people would value a public square over a bus station.<br><br>Re Rowan’s – interesting that they have made it an official Asset of Community Value so that people can club together and buy it if they choose. I doubt that will happen though, not least because the value of that site will be very, very high – especially factoring in the development potential. The petition aside, it’s interesting that more respondents to the consultation agreed with redeveloping that site than keeping it.<br><br>As things stand, I think the council will struggle to resist development there. The Mayor can intervene on planning applications outside The City of 30 meters or higher. That would include the council’s plans for something 12-15 stories, and definitely include the Rowan’s owners alleged desire to match City North’s 22 stories. As Haringey doesn’t yet have a GLA-endorsed development plan to say how it will meet its housing obligations the Mayor might indulge his tendency to wave these things through.<br>

Papa

How do you broaden pavements with narrowing the road?

NorthNineteen

Small point: Islington aren't saying they will spend £100,000 on temporary closures.  They are in fact bidding for £100,000 from TfL (a fund called the RTF Incubator which is around £1 million I think).  I actually sit next to the person that deals with this fund - there are a LOT of bids which are currently being reviewed.  TfL Buses will be very anti losing their bus station even on just a temporary basis.<br>

Arkady

@PapaL – you don’t – sometimes that’s done deliberately as a traffic-calming measure. Coupled with extending the current bus lane along SSR (so that it can be used as a bus stop like it is under the bridge) maybe it would work?

Ali

Pavement widening happened on a very big scale out side Tescos and the Fish Shop one SGR and put the road down to a single lane each way. seems to have worked an calmed the traffic<br>

gardener-joe

...

Jonathan

Wasn't there just an event with lots of buses in FP? If we then close the bus station to make it into a park I think I might just get a bit too confused.

Sutent

@Arkady - There is no room on seven Sisters road outside Arsenal for widening for buses. It would be crazy to get rid of that bus station. So many buses terminate there. Surely with future public transport needs we will need a bigger bus station

Papa

Exactly what Sutent said.<div><br></div><div>The stretch of Seven Sisters Road outside the station is heavily congested already. At peak times it causes traffic problems stretching from past near Hornsey Road to Manor House. When it's busy, ie Arsenal games, events, or something just goes wrong, it can jam from Camden to Tottenham.</div><div><br></div><div>The bottom of Stroud Green Road is usually so bad that if you need to drive it, it is often worth going the long way round to get to Highbury, ie Hornsey Road or Endymion and Green Lanes.</div><div><br></div><div>Setting the evil motorist to one side, this is bad for air quality, cyclists, pedestrians, bus users, the general ambiance and people's sanity.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I struggle to understand how sticking a load more buses stopping on the road is not going to make things worse.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I'm all for nice open spaces and I'm not generally a big fan of bus stations, but this plaza ambition just strikes me as deluded.</div>

Ali

Gj In narrowed form te point of view that less road space in avaible for cars as the bus in now in road. Same happened on Blackstock<br>

Arkady

Run that by me again?

kreuzkav

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal;">http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jul/25/poor-doors-segregation-london-flats</span></font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><span style="line-height: normal;">Is this what's to come?</span></font></div>

ADGS

Disgusting, but entirely unsurprising. Since my employers moved to the City, I've been amazed at quite how true the stereotype of City workers is. I think it's the only area of London where every conversation I've ever overheard has been utterly tedious.

JoeV

To come? Pioneered in London. The Vista building, the height of Stroud Green luxury, has a poor door.<br>

Arkady

<div style="font-weight: normal;">Courtesy of Cllr Gallagher, here's a heads-up concerning the next round of consultation for the Finsbury Park development plan:</div><div style="font-weight: normal;"><br></div><span style="font-weight: bold;">Consultation on Finsbury Park regeneration</span><br><br>A consultation period on the draft Finsbury Park Development Framework Supplementary Planning Document (SPD) is taking place between Monday 17 November 2014 and Monday 15 December 2014.<br><br><div style="font-weight: normal;">The draft Finsbury Park Development Framework SPD provides a further layer of detail to the broad development objectives from the adopted Finsbury Park Town Centre SPD.<br><br></div><div style="font-weight: normal;">As part of the public consultation, Islington Council will be holding three drop-in information sessions in the area on the following dates:<br> <br>· Tuesday 25 November 2014, 3pm - 6pm, the Arts Building, Morris Place, London N4 2JG;<br>· Thursday 4 December 2014, 5pm-8pm, FinSpace, 225-229 Seven Sisters Road, London N4 2DA; and<br>· Saturday 6 December 2014, 11am – 2pm, the Arts Building, Morris Place, London N4 2JG.<br> <br>Information on the public consultation, including a copy of the draft SPD, will be available from Islington Council’s website (www.islington.gov.uk/finsburypark) from Monday 17 November 2014. An online survey has been set up to gather feedback and comments, which will be live from 17th November at this address https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RG7WSJJ.</div>;

Arkady

<a href="http://www.islington.gov.uk/publicrecords/library/Planning-and-building-control/Publicity/Public-notices/2014-2015/(2014-11-14)-Draft-Finsbury-Park-Development-Framework-SPD.pdf">This </a>is a very interesting document.  Worth scanning through for the pictures alone, especiallyu if you have yet to get your head around the plans for the station: 

markpack

@Arkady Do you know if there are any plans for the Haringey side of Stroud Green Road right by the railway bridges running north? It's only a very thin stretch of ground between the bridges and the entrance to the Network Rail site but it's at the moment often broken bits of fencing, dumped rubbish around the ads etc. I wonder if it's getting overlooked for the improvement plans as it's the other side of the council boundary?

Arkady

The whole triangle - including the Network Rail site - is identified in Haringey's documentation as 'Site S6' or 'the Stroud Green Road site'. It is designated for a high-density housing redevelopment with commercial frontage onto the SGR. At a guess, I don't think that Network Rail will release the site until Thameslink is completed (2018).<br><br>The tiny 'units' that front on to Stroud Green Road itself have - I think - been sold off, which may complicate the redevelopment. Occasionally you see them up for sale as car park spaces and the like - when they are not occupied by shanties operating as taxi ranks.<br><br>When development plans do come forward I'm sure that there will be an interesting screaming competition between the people complaining that it's too tall for so near the park (see also - Rowans) and the poor residents of the Vista building whose view of the same park will disappear.<br><br>For my part I agree that something ought to be done with that space, as it's an eyesore, but I'd imagine it will be one of the last bits to be redeveloped. Then again, when the Council has another look at its planning policy next year and realises the shortfall relative to the London Plan (let alone to the predicted upward revision in housing numbers expected in the next iteration of the London Plan) you might start seeing development opportunities like this being brought forward.<br>

Arkady

Further to this, a new consultation document will shortly be published which gives more detail concerning these plans. The small print on the two Finsbury Park sites is as follows:<div style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-style: normal;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Rowans</span><br><br>Site Requirements<br> The Twelve Pins pub, and 265 & 267 Seven Sisters Rd should be retained, although<br>demolition and reprovision of the pub extension would be considered.<br> The entrance to the park from Station Place will be enhanced, with a clear,<br>visible, open pedestrian and cycling route provided.<br> Taller buildings will be permitted on either side of the new entrance which will<br>help to mark Finsbury Park as a destination.<br>an appropriate leisure/community facility to replace the existing Rowan's bowling alley must be provided at the foot of the new buildings.<br> All frontages onto Seven Sisters Rd and Stroud Green Rd should have active<br>town centre frontages.<br> An improved urban realm around the public house should be provided, with<br>the design integrated into the improved park entrance.<br> The existing secure cycle parking facility will be replaced and enhanced.<br><br></div><div><span style="font-style: italic;">Development Guidelines</span><br><br> Height should peak proximate to the rail line, and step down towards the<br>Park, and the corner of Seven Sisters and Stroud Green Roads.<br> The architecture should frame the new entrance to the park from Finsbury<br>Park station.<br> Regarding height, the design needs to be carefully justified and designed to<br>demonstrate an acceptable relationship with the retained pub buildings opposite<br>and the buildings across the road, but could extend up to 15 storeys.<br> Development directly facing the Park should be limited to 6 storeys.<br> Heights should be restricted to 5 storeys on Seven Sisters Road.<br> The building line on Seven Sisters Rd should wherever possible be set back<br>to the line of the Park gates to create a small piece of urban realm.<br> Buildings will be of an exceptional quality, reflecting the long views, and the<br>prominence of the site from within the Park.<br> The access from the park to Finsbury Park Road (to the south-east of the site)<br>should be retained and enhanced.<br> Rowans bowling alley is listed as an Asset of Community Value.<br> Any future proposal to replace the existing bowling alley should show how the<br>new development will reprovide the current leisure function.<br> Studies should be undertaken to understand what potential contamination<br>there is on this site prior to any development taking place. Mitigation of and<br>improvement to local air quality and noise pollution should be made on this<br>site.<br><span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: bold;"><br>SGR Network Rail Site</span><br><br>Site Requirements<br> No buildings need to be retained.<br> Heights will be limited on this site to 12 storeys at the corner of the site by the<br>rail line subject to demonstrating acceptable environmental effects on<br>neighbouring dwellings on Woodstock Rd.<br> Town centre uses will be required at ground floor level on the Stroud Green<br>Road frontage of this site, with residential above and behind.<br><br></div><div><span style="font-style: italic;">Development Guidelines</span><br><br> Height will be restricted to 4 storeys adjacent to the residential properties on<br>Woodstock Rd and will need to demonstrate an acceptable relationship with<br>neighbouring residential sites. Heights can then rise towards the rail line.<br> Noise pollution from the rail line will need to be adequately mitigated.<br> Residential development will not be suitable directly adjacent to the railway<br>embankment due to there being a lack of light at this point. Car parking is<br>seen as a logical use at this part of the site.<br> Car parking should enter from a discreet archway off Stroud Green Rd, with<br>parking located adjacent to the railway embankment at ground floor level.<br> In line with policy SP9, if redevelopment results in a net loss of employment<br>floorspace, a financial compensation will be required as set out in the Planning<br>Obligations SPD.<br> A new communal courtyard above undercroft parking should be created, with<br>development providing a buffer from the noise pollution on Stroud Green Rd<br>and the rail line.<br> Studies should be undertaken to understand what potential contamination<br>there is on this site prior to any development taking place. Mitigation of and<br>improvement to local air quality and noise pollution should be made on this site.<br></div>

Arkady

There is also talk of redeveloping the Jewsons site near Harringay station, and that this would be linked to improvement works to the pedestrian bridge - especially to improve the gradient.

NorthNineteen

12 storey at the Network Rail site will be quite imposing.<div><br></div><div>These developments (together with City North) are going to give quite an increase in retail floorspace - wonder how many wlll be coffee shops!?</div>

Sutent

There must be a limit on how many coffee shops that can survive. We will get usual places like zizi, marks and Spencer, boots, pizza express, boots etc

Arkady

12-15 stories is quite imposing, but in the context of the 22-story tower next door I suspect that won't be an issue - indeed they will help to mediate the difference between those towers and John Jones, which will itself mediate between these 12-15 story buildings and the surrounding Victorian streets. It's a classic case of clustering.<br><br>I agree that the retail offer is likely to be unimaginative, but given that it will be replacing no-retail-at-all I'm not fussed. A few chains around the station I can handle, as long as SGR remains gloriously independent.<br>