Save Our City

miss annie

'ordinary people living on ordinary streets isn't a perk, it's what a city is' I love this place. I've seen it change all my life, I actually remember old bomb sites near Barts and St Paul's. I often don't agree with the changes but see that they are good for London and Londoners. The change happening now is not good for the mixed bag of people who actually want to stay here their whole lives. We have to do something about social housing, rent control, ghost properties. We have to learn to value this glorious old place as something more than a giant cash cow. London's character is formed by the ragbag of people that live here, we need all kinds of people. Not just the wealthy homeowners and investors. Crossrail is an admission that no one on a low wage will be able to afford to live here so we'll have to ship everyone in from the sticks, right? This is a rant I go on regularly, fortunately I'm not alone. Save our city and #savesoho http://www.timeout.com/london/things-to-do/save-our-city?cid=TOL~NL~1400572713~~CTA~2015-03-11

NorthNineteen

I agree with much of this, but not sure what Crossrail has to do it - it was envisaged in the 1970s after all

Arkady

Indeed, Crossrail makes everyone'e life easier, including deprived parts of London like Whitechapel.

kreuzkav

London is a city of commerce and it has been a very creative free spirited place in the past.  In the past London had a creaking overground system and bad plumbing.  Now it's a lot more in shape but it also seems to coincide with a period in history of global speculation.  Brand London is hot.  But as the article in Time Out and other commentators have said over the last few years,  London was great because it was creaky and a bit awkward.  Developments are descending on its wildest places and banishing things like Brixton market.  Basically the wild spirit of London is being bought and sold by a bunch of jeep driving money mad robots who read about the latest eat-out dining fix via some 'cool' website.  Commerce and creative London are no longer dancing.  Commerce is whipping creative London at the alter of dead London.<div><br></div><div>Krappy Rub Sniff wrote about Ray Davis and the Kinks and I read the same review of the book.  Davis might have been contrary and mean, but at least he was different and didn't fit in. </div>

Mirandola

I was down in Bristol earlier this week (possibly/probably moving there in a year or two). It does feel more approcheable than London, but then it's not London.

krappyrubsnif

Good place, bristol.  Nice cider bars.

TheMimsy

<span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: 20px; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> London was great because it was creaky and a bit awkward.</span><br><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Agreed!</span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><font color="#333333" face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: 14px;">I feel that the Crossrail has created a lot of damage: the community around Somers Town and Drummond Crescent's curry houses are under threat, both the Astoria and the Astoria II have gone, Soho is threatened too (apparently even the Curzon Soho - recently done up - is) and the whole of the St Giles area/Denmark Street looks like will change beyond recognition. </span></font></div><div><font color="#333333"><font face="Arial, Verdana" style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">I was shocked to see the old site of Central Saint Martin, on Charing Cross Road next to Foyles, </span></font><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">converted</span><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif" style="font-family: Arial, Verdana;"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;"> into flats: w</span></font><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">ho the hell can afford to live there... plus it looks so soulless!</span></font></font></font></div><div><font color="#333333"><font face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 14px; line-height: normal;">I miss the buzz of the arty crowds hanging out there...These are places that made London interesting and unique and you would have thought that a certain level of preservation would have been guaranteed…who wants to live in a cross between Toytown and Dubai?!</span></font></font></font></div>

Arkady

Somers Town is HS2, not Crossrail.<div>St Giles/Denmark St is also unrelated to Crossrail.</div><div>All the CSM art students have moved to King's Cross, which is perhaps now my favourite corner of London (other than  SG, obvs)</div>

JoeV

@TheMimsy - I take your point but old Central St Martins now houses Foyles, not just flats. <div><br></div><div>Arkady, I thought <span style="font-size: 10pt;">the development around St Giles High Street & Denmark Street was directly related to Crossrail and the redevelopment of Tottenham Court Road tube station? I just noticed the other day that all the Korean BBQ restaurants were boarded up. Do you know if these buildings are being taken down?</span></div>

NorthNineteen

The creaky and awkward bits have moved - go visit Hackney Wick, Deptford or Peckham and there is a massive arty buzz.  Stroud Green could well be heading in that direction too... So in my eyes London is still great!<br><br>I guess the threat is just how far can you push this out, but if some creative types and other professionals start moving to Bristol, Birmingham or Bognor is that such a bad thing?  It happened through the 90s, it's just in London out-migration massively reduced from 2005-2015, and this is largely what has caused the huge increase in cost of property and rapidly rising population.<br><br>It looks like Denmark St is going to get some planning protection (though I'm not sure how).  Curzon Soho has been identified as a possible southern entrance to the Crossrail 2 Tottenham Court Road station (along with the offices next door) - the building has no merit I'd suggest it's only the contents...<br>

Arkady

@JoeV - I don't think so. There's a massive clean-up around Centre Point being funded by Crossrail, alongside substantial pavement widening and other improvements on Charing Cross Road. I think that the horrible corner building on St-Giles facing Centre Point may have been demolished due to Crossrail. But the landowner's decision to redevelop the wider site, including the alley at the back-of Denmark street, is entirely their own choice - they have owned all the buildings for 20 years, and could have kicked out the music shops at any point, and say they have no reason to do so in future. <div><br></div><div>Part of the project means the renovation of the stunning mansion-building facing St Giles (where the BBQ places are - see below). I agree it's a shame that the BBQ places have to close while that happens, and I worry that they will not return, but them's the breaks. As usual, I refuse to accept the argument that it is a good thing for buildings to fall into decay 'because grimy is good', or that we should resist actions to preserve the life of a beautiful piece of architecture because it might disrupt the business of a beloved food-joint. Long-term thinking, people.</div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://www.burohappold.com/fileadmin/uploads/bh/Photos/Projects/Slideshow/St Giles Circus day.jpg"><br></div>

JoeV

Thanks for posting the pic. Yes, it's a shame the Korean BBQs had to close, but I was more sad when First Out cafe closed. It looks like the facades will stay, which is good, but the insides will be gutted to fit the modern building, which is uninspiring if that's the final design.<div><br></div><div>I don't think grimy is good, but sometimes grimy is imposed to purposely run down a property to make it ripe for development </div>

Papa

I agree with quite a bit of the stuff there and yes London is getting a bit shiny and new, but overall I think it's a better place than it was 20 years ago when I was growing up.<div><br></div><div>For example, I miss the edge of old Kings Cross, like I miss the feel of a smokey pub, but indubitably it's better now.</div><div><br>We are at a difficult moment in time where due to the financial crisis and recession, there is huge demand from both Britons and Europeans to move to London and its better opportunities. It's a global city, with fantastic innovation, strong finance and tech firms - and an easy place to set up a business or find a job. And English is most people's second language.</div><div><br></div><div>Look at the devastating youth unemployment across Europe and the rules that disadvantage young workers - it's no wonder people move to London.</div><div><br></div><div> That effect will ease. It already is. <span style="font-size: 10pt;">I know some of the techies I work with - a traditionally international and footloose bunch - have decided to move to Berlin instead. Likewise, among Britons there are more people opting to head for or stay in Manchester, Birmingham etc.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>What concerns me is the developments being done that are being flogged off to overseas owners. We have a limited space to build on in the City, we should not be flogging City North flats in Singapore. It would be possible to impose a foreign ownership (or at last outside EU) ban on new build sales.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div><div><br></div>

Arkady

"<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13.3333330154419px; line-height: 19.0476188659668px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">What concerns me is the developments being done that are being flogged off to overseas owners"</span><div><br></div><div>Bang on. I'll vote for the mayor/party who promises to a) place very substantial restrictions on this and b) insists that all new developments must have a significant council housing element.</div>

Sutent

@Arkady. The green party promise All of this.

Arkady

I should have added "and tell me convincingly that they have the first clue how to afford it and what the consequences will be". Not that I'm dismissive of them mind, I think they have a valuable role to play, and if anything I'm more radical than they are on the environment

JoeV

What's the difference between an owner of a City North flat who lives in Singapore or one that lives in Sheffield? It's buy-to-let investors against everyone else. <div><div><br></div></div>

Arkady

Agreed, though restricting that is arguably even more radical.

TheMimsy

@ JoeV I noticed that Foyles has expanded into the site of ex Central St Martin's, but I still wonder who will buy these flats...or will they be empty? And I was sad, too, about First Out going...<div><br></div><div>There have been some success stories too, like Gaby's Deli a bit further down Charing Cross Road, that managed (through a strong campaign) to stay open.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Mirandola

I used to love that corner around St. Giles (church where Milton's daughter was christened) with First Out and the Korean places. It felt private somehow and walking through there down past St Martin's in the Fields to work got me through a tough time. What will come may be better, but I'll still mourn losing that.