Finsbury Park Station Users Group - meeting tonight, FinFuture Building, 18:30

Arkady

Hi all.<div><br></div><div>The FPSUG is having its second meeting tonight. This is an informal group, working under the umbrella of the Finsbury Park Trust, which aims to discuss and lobby on issues about the station and its immediate surroundings.</div><div><br></div><div>Tonight we will have in attendance a representative from TfL, who will update us about the step-free access works, and the neighbouring City North development/Western Ticket Hall. There will also be discussion about related works such as the murals going up under the station bridges.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not sure what the situation is with numbers, so if anyone would like to attend please could you email me at redarkady@hotmail.com?</div><div><br></div><div>Either way, I'll provide an update here in due course.</div>

Sutent

Hey Arkady. Gutted I can't make it tonight. Am in New York for a meeting. Looking forward to your report

Arkady

Some interesting bits and bobs from last night (some of you may receive letters from TfL containing some of this):<br><br>TfL are definitely pressing ahead with the step-free access works, regardless of what happens with City North. The Wells Terrace entrance will be gated by November, in which month all the gates will become operational. Interestingly, TfL are expecting compensation from City North from having to unexpectedly spend money on gating Wells Terrace due to delays to the City North development. It could be the the gated Wells Terrace entrance won't be around for very long. On the other hand, TfL are in negotiations with the new developer of City North to reduce the planned time between the Wells Terrace Entrance closing and the new Western Ticket Hall opening. The TfL Area Manager stated that he wants the new station entrance to be the first thing that they build, and we offered to assist with lobbying City North on this point.<br><br>Network Rail are also going to gate their Station Place entrance at some point, but maybe not soon - the new franchisee (Govia) are reluctant to stump up the cash.<br><br>From the middle of this month (October) there will be some sort of 'traffic control' under the Stroud Green Road bridge to allow construction access to the platform levels from the roadway. This will be in place for up to two years. The much-derided cycle-lane under the bridge will be closed and levelled-off with the pavement to increase pedestrian space.<br><br>From November to mid-December piling works for the lifts will begin up at the abandoned National Rail platform that sits between platform 8 and City North. These will be 24/hr works; the quietest-possible piling rigs will be used.<br><br>Over Christmas (24th-27th) a crane will be installed at platform level to facilitate the lift excavations. The lift excavation and fit-out will run all through 2016 & 2017.<br><br>There will be lifts to all platforms, underground and national rail. The lift entrances at underground platform level will be opposite the bottom of the LARGE flights of stairs - i.e. the ones that have a handrail down the middle. These stairs will be closed sequentially (starting with the vastly quieter northbound stairs) during the lift-works, so expect a bit of a pinch-point!<br><br>Separately to these works, Network Rail are expected to refurbish the bridges over Seven Sisters and Stroud Green Roads by the new year. As part of this refurbishment the <a href="http://www.islington.gov.uk/islington/news-events/news-releases/2014/11/Pages/PR6030.aspx">new tiling/mural/lighting</a> will be installed under the Seven Sisters Road bridge. Something similar is planned for the Stroud Green Road bridge, but the dates for this are less certain (possibly because two-boroughs have to fund it, rather than just one, but also because of the temporary construction access under the bridge).<br><br>A plan to lobby Islington & City North about providing public toilets may get off the ground.<div>There's probably other stuff, but that's all that comes to mind until I get the minutes.</div>

gardener-joe

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Sutent

Thanks Arkady. Good to see things are moving on. I wish they would not allow cars to park under stroud green bridge especially if cycle lanes are going

NorthNineteen

It's worth adding, until the new ticket hall in City North is built the only access to the new lifts will be via Station Place.<br>

Arkady

Oh, good point @NorthNineteen. If I understood him correctly, the TfL Area Manager said that the work to extend the corridor that will have the lifts on - and which will break through into the existing Wells Terrace tunnel not far from the current T-junction - is technically independent of the City North plan (though I would imagine that the Wells Terrace entrance would need to be closed, at least temporarily, in order to achieve that break-through). Given the current timescales of the works, though, I'd imagine that the new corridor works will end up being integrated with the new ticket hall works as originally envisaged.

Ali

<p> "The much-derided cycle-lane under the bridge will be closed and levelled-off with the pavement to increase pedestrian space."</p><p> </p><p>Not sure why these are derided.</p><p> </p><p> I and lots of other people use them all the time.  Is it both sides of the road d that will close? - the Park  side pavement is used a lot less and the cycle  lane that side could be two way.  If they are to close I hope the road surface is fixed as it is full of holes exactly where a cyclist would go if they don't I predict injuries !</p><p> </p><p>Will  there  be a consulation on this ?</p>

Arkady

There's been a lot of complaints that the cycle path there is dangerous, in part because pedestrian flows are such that it tends not to be respected. With the imminent construction works under the bridge and prospective closure of the Wells Terrace entrance the closure will become necessary to facilitate pedestrian access.<div><br></div><div>I'm afraid I don't know any other details, and I doubt there will be a consultation given the necessity of the closure.</div>

marko

Is the cycle lane to be removed from both sides, or just the one on the western side SGR?

miss annie

Very bad news about cycle lane. It's not safe cycling under the bridge on SGR without it. Shows that cyclists are not considered important at all in planning decisions. Is there any plan for Boris Bikes here? FP is the busiest station outside zone 2, seems mad not to have them.

helen

I think we're due the bikes with the dynamo attachments - the issue around here has always been that they could provide bikes but they wouldn't be used very far because of the hills to Crouch End, Ally Pally and Muswell Hill. So we're getting the e-bikes. no idea when they're due though, i thought it was before the end of the year

gardener-joe

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Arkady

Annie, I'm not sure that it would be entirely fair to say they don't consider cyclists. It's more that cars and pedestrians HAVE to use the soon-to-be-narrower space, whereas cyclists do have the option of dismounting or riding on the road. To keep the cycle path in the new conditions would be dangerous for everyone, including cyclists.<div><br></div><div>I don't know whether they are closing the cycle path on both sides - I would guess not.</div><div><br></div><div>And yes, as Helen said the talk is to introduce the new dynamo bikes. TfL's concern was that people would use the normal bikes to go down hill to work and then public transport to get back up the hill, leaving them with a massive an costly redistributive job every evening.</div>

NorthNineteen

Actually there have never been any plans to extend cycle hire up here - firstly there's no money and secondly Islington don't really like them; hence why they barely get beyond Angel.<br><br>Finsbury Park is in zone 2 by the way.<br>

Arkady

Why don't Islington like them?<div><br></div><div>Annie is no-doubt referring to <a href="http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/boris-bikes-to-go-electric-next-year-as-part-of-major-expansion-of-london-cycle-scheme-8901331.html">this </a>- was it all BS then?</div>

NorthNineteen

It's still being looked at - I can't go into much detail but lets just say TfL aren't exactly keen the e-bike funding is coming out of their budget.  As far as I know it's still happening but I wouldn't be surprised if it was subtly dropped at some point. <br><br>Islington don't like them as take away pavement space, incur an additional maintenance cost and Islington aren't as positive towards cycling as other boroughs.  The expansion of cycle hire was being pushed by the Lib Dem councillors - but now there aren't any it has died...  I always feel pedestrian safety and air quality are the two driving forces for Islington (plus saving money/extracting money for other sources), just look at the contrast between cycling facilities between Islington and Hackney along their border.  Anyway, rant over.<br>

miss annie

<p>What about people who might like to use the Boris bikes to go to work rather than just to Crouch End or Muswell Hill. Cycling under that bridge without a cycle lane is dangerous. pushine my bike through the giant crowds of people will be annoying for me and probably more so for them.</p><p>Pedestrian safety can't be much of a priority, have you seen he state of the pavement on the lower end of SGR and on Clifton Terrace? I broke my ankle falling over a dodgy paving stone there and even though I've spoken to the council about it several times it still hasn't been fixed.</p>

NorthNineteen

What about them?<div><br></div><div>Unfortunately the cycle lanes were very poorly designed and I'd go as far as saying they were a mistake.  They do not comply with London Cycle Design Standards. They will probably be re-instated after the works, which incidentally aren't a planning decision - it's a construction mitigation. Fortunately there are alternative cycle routes towards the SE.</div>

miss annie

<p>If you bus into the area and FP tube you won't have noticed them. I walk there every day, and from there up SGR to the shops.</p><p>They're some of the worst pavements I've seen in London. The stretch from the tube, under the railway bridge up to the World's End has lifted  and severely cracked flags all over the place. There is one by the car wash that is practically vertical. The paving stones in Clifton Terrace are awful too, the stretch outside the Park theatre is particularly bad. I tripped over where the paving stone has cracked in the middle so that a kerb stone is left sticking up about an inch but there are a couple of others that regularly trip people over. One of them had a white line painted round it early in the summer but no repairs.</p>

Ali

<p>Why do the cars have to go through the narrowed road?  They could quite easily  go via Fonthill Road leaving waht is left of the road/pavemnet space to pedestrians  and cycles. Maybe they could close more of the road  and do the job quicker, hence save some money.</p><p>I would  think lots of what  people expect TfL to deliver will not be  as Gideon Osbourne has his 40% cuts comming along in  a few weeks time.</p><p>You can see some of the posturing going on eg  Tour De France funding taken away.  </p><p>Wonder if the Night Tube might be part of the cuts thast will come as I guess we will not see that until after Christmas.   If it does come it will boost house prices around here by 15% according to todays City AM.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

NorthNineteen

Night tube is supposedly revenue neutral and should make a small profit (I suspect TfL have under-estimated demand especially in the midnight-2am period).<br><br>In terms of the pavement - if Islington had any sense they would be doing the pavements in the near future as I guess they would have waited until the works at John Jones were complete.<br><br><br>

miss annie

<p>The pavements round there have been awful since the dawn of time. Not holding out hope for them being fixed any time soon.</p><p><br></p>

NorthNineteen

Areas on borough boundaries often are, even worse round Finsbury Park being the boundary of three boroughs!  Road surfacing is clearly on Islington's radar with Fonthill Road recently being re-done.<br>

Arkady

"<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">if Islington had any sense they would be doing the pavements in the near future" - indeed. Of course Islington chose to redo the eastern side of Clifton Terrace just before the John Jones works began, so the work subsequently had to be done again. That said, the second time around it has been done to an excellent standard - hopefully that can be matched on the west side.</span>

Ali

Which council "owns" the road under thr bridges ?

Arkady

Islington under the SS bridge, joint Islington/Haringey under the SGR bridge.

NorthNineteen

Actually, TfL "own, manage and maintain" Seven Sisters road<br>

Arkady

Interesting!

NorthNineteen

<cite class="_Rm"><a href="https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/tfl-base-map-master.pdf">https://tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/tfl-base-<b>map</b>-master.pdf</a><br><br></cite>S<cite class="_Rm">hows all the roads that TfL "owns"<br></cite>

kreuzkav

One of the problems I had with the cycle paths were the buses at Finsbury Park Station.  You'd be cycling on the path and cross over.  They just come out and not give you right of way.  That's the problem with temporary cycle lanes.  Motor vehicles don't treat them as a right of way.