Fatal stabbing in Marquis Road

edited December 2015 in Local discussion
<font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;">http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/finsbury-park-stabbing-student-killed-in-quiet-road-after-going-to-friend-s-18th-party-a3127936.html</span></font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;">It happened last night, so shocking :-(</span></font></div>


  • Just witnessed the grieving mother. Utterly tragic.
  • This story touched me. Utterly devastating for the area. Thoughts with all those affected
  • Very sad. Awful that the friend seemed to accept that it's just what happens to teenagers in North London. There has to be more stop and search.
  • edited December 2015
    @ Miss Annie.  How should these stop and searches be targeted?  At late teens? At certain other groups? Or random?  Should we all be searched walking down the street?
  • <font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34981839</span></font>;
  • It's not old fifty somethings that are carrying knives or doing the stabbings it's the young we all know unless you stop and search this will continue also the sentences have to be more of a deterrent But more than anything we need the right people to engage with these groups to steer them away from this destruction
  • edited December 2015
    We should look at the most likely victims and perpetrators of knife crime and base stop and search on those findings. When you have to pass through a body scanner like the one at the airport to visit a school art exhibition, you know things are bad! I have no idea how you engage with these people. It's the utterly insane American view that carrying a weapon protects you that we're dealing with. There is no reasoning with that as Barack Obama has found out, to his clearly ever increasing frustration. Carrying a weapon is illegal, stupid and makes you more, not less likely to be a victim or perpetrator. Either way you end up dead or in prison. I don't see another way of presenting that message. It makes me really angry that these incidents are always greeted with 'the government need to do something about it' or 'we need to do something'. What? There are laws to cover it, everyone knows killing someone is wrong. This problem is not going away however much earnest, liberal handwringing we do. Stop and search and harsh sentencing for those caught is a deterrent. These are male teenagers (mostly) killing each other on the street, seemingly just because they can. And it's been happening more and more over the last fifteen or so years. Why do we think it's happening?
  • Has it been happening more? Violent crime in general has gone down for decades across the developed world. Terrible things still happen, and each of these tragedies is someone's world destroyed, but I wouldn't rush to the things are getting worse narrative. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30578891 http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/murder-rate-hits-42-year-low-in-london-8462974.html Stop & search is a tricky one. As a white middle class woman I'm pretty sure I could walk around with a knife, accidentally take things without paying and make jokes about bombs without ever attracting suspicion because people assume people like me don't commit crimes. Hell, when the airport sniffer dogs flagged me up because my second-hand bag smelt of the previous owner's drugs the police waved me past anyway - my guess is because they thought I was a nice girl and they didn't want to get me in trouble. If I were black and male any of the above could get me into trouble. That, instinctively, doesn't feel fair. Agree entirely, of course, that carrying a weapon is daft.
  • Just left some flowers at the murder site. A local resident from the estate left a notice saying this was the 1st murder here for 35 yrs. Yes- knife crime has fallen in London but it's not sure to stop & search. Stop & Search doesn't prevent alienation & disadvantage. ...
  • edited December 2015
    A young boy was stabbed to death five years ago outside my flat off Hornsey Rd, there have been others in the last few years. Yes, as a white working class woman I could probably carry a knife without being stopped and searched. The fact is I don't and that, surely is the point. If I was stopped and searched I really would not care at all, if it helps make the streets safer for others it is not a massive inconvenience to me. It is extremely naive to imagine that it is lots of innocent people being randomly stopped. The police know very well what kind of people are statistically most likely to commit which crimes. Time to stop the attitudes which have partly allowed people to run about with knives with no fear of being searched and time to make them too afraid to carry them. I'm just furious that it suddenly becomes everyone else's fault when this happens. The police for searching people, the government for not making another law, schools for, actually god knows what. These people are old enough to know right from wrong and should be treated in the same way as any other murderer because that, regardless of how many excuses people want to make for them, is what they are.
  • edited December 2015
    There is an update <a href="http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/finsbury-park-stab-death-two-men-held-on-suspicion-of-murdering-gary-scott-17-a3129591.html">here</a><div><div><br></div><div>Hopefully they will get to the bottom of this tragedy soon.</div></div>
  • I just walked into the grieving family on my way to the post office.<div><br><div>Before you all start plumbing the depths of the knife crime moral panic it may be worth noting that the men who've been arrested are neither local nor teenage.</div></div>
  • Quite. Some of the comments here would have Orwell spinning in his grave.
  • I got stopped and searched at Hampstead tube station a few years back, while on my way to work.  As it happened, I was carrying quite a few knives, my work (then and now) being in kitchens.  The policeman wasn't interested.  It was painless and I even got a receipt.<div><br></div><div>Thoroughly recommend watching 'The Murder Detectives', which was on Channel 4 this week.  Real insight shown into the effects this kind of crime has on the families of both the victim and the perpetrator.  Gripping and heart-rending.</div>
  • Does not surprise me at all that they are not local, these are often stupid 'turf war' related crimes. Yes, I'm in favour of CCTV everywhere too.
  • I've just googled 'stabbing Stroud Green' to find out more about the men who have been arrested. Nothing there yet but quite a lot of other news stories about knife crimes in Stroud Green over the last five or six years, including a thread from this forum posted in 2009 (when the forum was a considerably more entertaining place). I don't believe that North London is unsafe as I'm very unlikely to be a victim of knife crime, but it's very clearly less safe for a certain demographic. I'm not having a moral panic either as I don't think knife crime is my fault. There are people in North London walking around with knives and quite probably guns here and there. Why do you think this is and what would you do to stop it? Or is it something that we should just accept because stop and search upsets people and harsh sentencing disturbs liberal sensibilities?
  • OK they are local. They live on Victoria Rd.<div>But certainly not teens.</div>
  • So it sounds we need to bring our understanding of 'Gangs of North London' up to date?
  • Oh my god. Local people committing an awful crime. Who knows what the motive was.
  • I think the problem 'stop and search' can create is to create resentment.  I think if you're not part of an ethnic or other minority group who has been picked on it's easy to dismiss this as trivial.  In the late 2000s the police were carrying out random 'stop and search' on everyone.  This was an experiment that was stopped because it was box ticking.  We'll pull in a white woman in her 30s for random search, a white man in his 50s ......   It achieved nothing.  A blue form was given and the police apologised as they knew it was not tackling the problem .  Most people undergoing this were either slightly angered  or knew the score.  But what did it achieve?<div><br></div><div>What's the harm in 'stop and search'? Well in the past it criminalizes sections of the community and makes them hate the police and authority.  Internment in Ireland created recruits for the IRA, INLA...Blanket bombing of the Middle East creates resentment and retaliation.</div><div><br></div><div>Stop and Search should be intelligence lead and used selectively.  Probably by specially trained police who have done their research into a certain gang or individual, not by some knee-jerk bobby.  Luckily, we have one of the most intelligent secret services and police force in the world.  Lots of their training was from observing IRA cells during the troubles.  They have foiled many attacks. </div>
  • It would be good to organize a march or something similar as a small gesture of solidarity. The community should react strongly to this awful crime. Involve authorities too. It can t go unnoticed and then everyone just forgets about it :-(
  • @ Fabruce.  I'll be there. If the family wants it?  Despite what people have posted, this isn't the first murder on that estate or around it.  I remember a few more over the last decade.
  • @kreuzkav you are right. If the family wants it it would be good to show a good response from the community. Has it been done before?
  • I know of a pensioner beaten in a burglary about ten years ago. And other murders around the estate.  I'm not really into sensation so can't remember the dates.  <div><br></div><div>Despite what happened before,  I think this should be marked.  I passed by the murder spot by accident yesterday evening on the way out to meet people and there were a group of his friends looking after the spot he died. All very gentle and respectful.  </div><div><br></div><div>If you or anyone knows if they want a public vigil, let us know.</div>
  • <p>Yes @Fabruce, most recently a couple of weeks ago but hundreds of times over the last few years, all over the country.</p><p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34894395">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34894395</a></p><p> Ben Kinsella and Stephen Lawrence's families have both tried very vocal and long running campaigns.  Sadly they seemed to have achieved nothing in terms of stopping the problem. The most local knife murder before this one was on Caledonian Road where the young boy was murdered for his bicycle - just a few yards from where Ben Kinsella was murdered in 2008.</p>
  • @miss annie : i was thinking more about something done here in Stroud Green.<div><br></div><div>I guess there hasn't been a reason to march in the past (or maybe yes, i am fairly new here).</div><div><br></div><div><div>I have heard of Caledonian road murder...just couple of weeks ago :-(</div><div><br></div></div>
  • <font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;">Holloway just over a week ago: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34907871</span></font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;">The most recent local one was on the Andover Estate in 2011, this lead to a lot of repissals including a stabbing on Wray Crescent and Crouch Hall Court: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23080138</span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333px; line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div>
  • News reports are saying that two people have been charged. Adrian Carpenter and Jermaine Reid, ages in 20s , address given as Victoria Road.
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