Man Realises he is Gentrification

south_to_north

Sounds like a very continental European arrangement - and I'm very envious! Our landlord tried to put the rent up on our one-bed by £150 this year -.-

HolbornFox

<font><span style="line-height: normal; font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;">Don't think it is the young creative people that are the problem as they are not 'hipsters' - which i also what i thought about the above comment of liking craft beer and having a beard (as that does not make you a hipster either).</span></font><div><span style="line-height: normal; font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><span style="line-height: normal;">Any </span><span style="line-height: normal;">young creative people i meet also do not like what is going on hence the people moving to other cities or abroad.</span><span style="line-height: normal;"><br></span></span><div><span style="line-height: normal; font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><br></span></div><div><font style="font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><span style="line-height: normal;">i have also noticed that the 'typical hipster' is older and </span><span style="line-height: normal;">generally</span><span style="line-height: normal;"> has nothing better to do in their 20's \ 30's then move from some village somewhere to London with </span><span style="line-height: normal;">the </span><span style="line-height: normal;">inheritance and </span><span style="line-height: normal;">suddenly</span><span style="line-height: normal;"> they are cool as they take molly on a </span><span style="line-height: normal;">Friday</span><span style="line-height: normal;">. </span></font></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><br></span></div><div><font style="font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><span style="line-height: normal;">They are also massively </span><span style="line-height: normal;">susceptible</span><span style="line-height: normal;"> to </span><span style="line-height: normal;">marketing</span><span style="line-height: normal;"> (craft beer, ping pong, 'festivals', fixies, pulled pork, red stripe, vintage' clothes). </span></font></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><br></span></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;">How they have the front to pour scorn on things that appeal to 'locals' i will never know.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><br></span></div><div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;">Anyway call it what you want but it is people taking from the (any) area and giving nothing back that is the problem.</span><div><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: small; font-family: Tahoma;">If you think that people are not being forced out just ask the council tenants in Crouch End that are having their rent set to 'market value'!</span></div><div style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></div></div></div></div>

south_to_north

<p>@Holbornfox I don't think I've ever met your kind of "hipster". I once worked with a guy who by all accounts was very hipsterish (as he admitted himself!). He had a long beard (waxed moustache!), a fixie bike, bought vinyl, liked craft beer and Campari, and lived in Hoxton.... in other words he had "all the things".</p><p>But.... he was a really nice guy. He wasn't rich, and he actually grew up in Hoxton. He was still working in a bar at 27 and he was trying to pursue a very poorly paid career in robotics. </p><p>There's a lot of "othering" going on here. I reckon if you actually talked a guy that many would consider a "hipster" you might quite like them (even if you do find some of their habits annoying). Also I don't think all of this is their fault. They are the harbingers of change sure, but the overall process is much bigger and more complex.</p><p>I'm also wondering what you mean by taking from the area? Because if you're talking about living in an area and not wanting to be associated with your neighbours, that's not just a hipster thing. Some would say that's a London thing! </p>

Arkady

Everything that south_to_north just said, with bells on.

HolbornFox

I talk to anybody, whether they are a hipster or not is irrelevant to me, I just notice that the people that believe they are a cut above (hipsters) generally have nish to say as they haven't done anything and are certainly not creative, despite what time out says. Some would say I am a creative (from my job) and I am actually originally also from East London (eek), I drink craft beer sometimes and have a beard when I can't be assed to shave! My definition of taking from an area is not supporting local traders and yes also not talking to us natives, that is not a London thing, that is manners and intelligence.

CityOfSin

Very well said, @south_to_north.<span style="font-size: 10pt;">.</span>

south_to_north

I think the people who move here are actually quite good at supporting local traders. Heck, the reason Stroud green and Finsbury Park are attractive in the first place is because we have so many of them! I often see newcomers in the naan shop on blackstock road for example.... If you don't want to have local shops you don't live in Finsbury Park, you live in Canada Water.....

miss annie

Everything @HolbornFox said but no bells - too hipster.

HolbornFox

How'd you know if it is a newcomer in the naan shop? It'd more likely be me stocking up on the herby one! As I said waaaaaaay up there somewhere, everything new is not hipster, ergo everyone new is also not a hipster... I know new people and the old timers, I couldn't care less really. It just confuses me why people feel the need to live in some wierd fake utopia, like the comment on another thread that someone didn't like the shops near tesco as they were non-gentrified (I was simply a voyeur then), that bugs me, and that is an example of take take take!

Ali

People are finding it hard to buy around here hence an exodus to the ladder

Ali

Miss Annie it seems the boundaries of Covent Garden are like Stroudgreen not defined. But apparently Kingsway in a generally accepted eastern boundary So I have to submit to you being correct but it is only by about 30 feet but that is enough

Ali

Also meant to say I did go there a few times right at the end.

south_to_north

I see your point in a way @holbornfox, but I have still yet to meet these mythical hipsters! There should be an Attenborough-style documentary called "The Hunt for the Hipsters of Stroud Green" (As I side note, does anyone know how that naan shop makes any money?! 4 naans for a quid, WTF?!)

miss annie

<p>Perhaps it's an age thing - from your posts @south_to_north I imagine you're mid twenties? therefore you are likely to mix mostly with your own age group. I sense, but could be mightly wrong, that @HolbornFox is a little bit older maybe with a wider mix of ages in his circle of acquaintance.</p><p>I've met several trust funders and ex City types who have set up cheese making places in Tottenham, craft gin distilleries, indie bookshops, split tin guitar workshops and ukele workshops. I don't think of them as hipsters but if they were 10- 15 years younger that is what they'd be called. I also don't think people who make artisan or peculiar things are default hipsters, the bit I  agree with is this </p><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;"><span style="line-height: normal;">'They are also massively </span><span style="line-height: normal;">susceptible</span><span style="line-height: normal;"> to </span><span style="line-height: normal;">marketing</span><span style="line-height: normal;"> (craft beer, ping pong, 'festivals', fixies, pulled pork, red stripe, vintage' clothes).'</span></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;"><span style="line-height: normal;"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;"><span style="line-height: normal;"> But I suppose that's always been the case - people want to fit in and be part of a tribe even though they think they are doing something massively original they end up doing it with thousands of others doing the same thing. 'Twas ever thus.</span></span></div><div><span style="line-height: normal; font-family: Tahoma; font-size: small;"><br></span></div><p>I don't use or really hear the word hipster outside of this forum. Odd as I work with a whole lot of educated, creative and bright young folk all over London. Perhaps they all just moved on and are creating the next big thing</p><p>By the way - none of them drink and they think craft beer is for old people! </p><p><br></p>

south_to_north

I think that's just the nature of trends. These are current trends that people seem to be into, and young people are generally more susceptible to them (and always have been no?) Equally, those of a different generation are more likely to find them vapid (Twas ever thus?). There's nothing really wrong with the list of popular stuff mentioned, it's just that they've become so ubiquitous so as to become annoying..... Pulled pork is great! I just hate seeing it EVERYWHERE (for the most part done poorly). Regarding said city people, better they go and do something creative than stay in the city in my book. Too many intelligent people get drawn into the city and never leave, and the fact that that's changing is good. Same with trust funders I guess. I mean, they're in the situation they're in whether people like it or not, and they could just sit on the sofa all day if they wanted to. But setting up your own business is hard work! And if you set up your own gin distillery that's at least a half decent application of that money, that contributes something. If I had a trust fund I might consider doing something similar.... why the hell not! Of course they could start a non-profit, but in my opinion don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

kreuzkav

I'm not sure if there is a strong link between hipsters and gentrification. I like Vagabond.  Some of the staff and customers are affected but they also have character as has the joint.  It seems to be an independent but could be wrong.  Other places are often just big business using the hipster vibe as a marketing ploy.<div><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The modern version of hipster came about about ten years ago. There was a movement towards small gigs, vinyl, indie-flics, hanging out drinking a few decent beers on a bridge (e.g. admiralebrucke in Berlin) and other downbeat activities.  It was friendly, non-affected when I encountered it in Berlin.  Lots of people over from the states from Austin, Texas as well as locals.  As an oldee in my late 30s I was quite impressed by the 20 somethings. As someone into a beer, odd music and odd film I was accepted into the fold.   I think this movement became commodified esp. in London around the 2010.  London, being a materialistic and very fashion conscious affected place took the look and the vibe and turned it from a more individual movement to a generic slightly alternative one.  </span><div><div><br></div><div>People have being rallying against developers for decades, centuries even.  In Paris, London, Barcelona, New York and Berlin. Hyper global investment in property is the main problem.  London and New York are still popular places to move to.  Not a lot of really affordable housing (social housing) is being built.  </div></div></div>

south_to_north

<p>@kreuzkav It's not vagabond's fault at all! It's more that those kind of businesses illustrate the changing demographics. For instance there's much less of that over my way near Holloway road, because - to put it bluntly - Turks, Algerians and Somalians are much less likely to fork out for artisan coffee! Young professionals though, that's a different story..... and honestly I include myself in the group of people who dig that stuff.</p><p>Completely agree that the hyper-investment in property and the lack of provision of social housing are the big issues. But undoubtedly, the fact that more people simply want to live in FP is also a big factor. Some of my girlfriend's colleagues, "brunchy-types", are actually considering FP in the same vein as Dalston and Peckham. That tells you something....</p>

miss annie

<p>You'll get better coffee in a Turkish or Algerian place! There is a branch of Vagabond on Holloway Rd too if you prefer a Westernised coffee. </p><p>Holloway Rd has some excellent shops if you like beautiful, unusual but not cheap things. D&A Binders for vintage furniture and shop fittings - Vagabond is next door, OooLaLa for antiques and bric a bric, Atsuko Kudo for specialist bespoke clothing, Vivienne of Holloway, and the brilliant little vintage clothing shop (that I can never rember the name of) under the bridge. Plus lots of other independent businesses.</p><p>Urrgh, Peckham is still widely regarded as a hole by most Londoners. It's only being considered as an option because people can't afford to live anywhere else! They'll be comparing us to bloody Croydon next.</p><p>I've just been drawing a food map of London as part of a project I'm doing for our cookery dept. and there are about five restaurants south of the river on it - it's a wasteland however much people try to wish it into being the new whatever.</p>

kreuzkav

Miss Annie.  Agree there's a lot of bounty on Holloway road.  I think it is probably now more interesting and authentic than over-commodified SGR.  Jai Krishna is still here, and Vagabond while over-priced and affected has some atmosphere compared to the rest.  <div><br></div><div>Love Holloway road heading down from Central Library (best library in the world?) to Highbury Corner, featuring Atsuko Kudo and The Garage.  Pity about the construction around Highbury and Islington. Union Chapel is special too. </div>

south_to_north

<p>Ah, but that's the Holloway road close to highbury and Islington, not quite the same in my book. Too close to upper street and too far from seven sisters road.....</p><p>Also, having had coffee basically everywhere round here, I can't say I've found that to be true! But I don't want to turn this into a post from coffeegeek.com </p>

south_to_north

<p>Well Finsbury park still has the same reputation with some! When my girlfriend told her aunt (a policewoman) she was moving there she was told not to go because it was too dangerous (and her aunt's from Romford!).</p><p>There's a lot to like in South London, for those open minded enough to make the epic 25 minute journey on the tube ;o)</p>

miss annie

<p>Romford is not dangerous or rough - I know, my mum lives in  Chadwell Heath and I've had more Gingham Kitchen dinners than I can count. </p><p>As discussed here at length, FP used to be properly rough 20 years ago but not now and not for a long time. I didn't know there was a tube station in Peckham? </p>

south_to_north

<p>Ah, but it has the reputation for being so.... which, though unintended, lends to my point in a way...</p><p>It does: overground. You should go, the double change is a bit of a ball ache, so it's more like 35 minutes. Artusi is great. <a href="http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/may/04/artusi-peckham-restaurant-review-jay-rayner">Jay Rayner is a big fan </a>, who also (apparently) lives in Peckham, which says it all really...</p>

kreuzkav

I think Blackstock road and around (south of Finsbury park) had the worst reputation and along Seven Sisters road.  I think the 20 year mark is about right.  This is generally to do with mugging.  Doesn't seem to happen round FP as much now.  Perhaps, I'm wrong.  Still lots of gang and domestic murders and violence.  Probably doesn't affect many demographics in area.

miss annie

<p>Artusi is one of the five. I've met Jay Rayner, he was extremely rude. I will attempt not to judge all of Peckham by him and Del Boy.</p><p>You'll never persuade me that the Deep South can hold a candle to the Glorious North but I'm pleased that other people have found new places to enjoy. London has room for all.</p><p><br></p><p><br></p><p><br></p>

gardener-joe

...