Voting Day

Arkady

Finally, it's over. Seems like anyone's guess as to the outcome. A serious question: has any one seen a Leave poster in Stroud Green? I've seen scores of Remain ones, along with stickers and flags and other propaganda, but not a single one for Leave. (This actually makes me wonder about the 'shy leave' vote). I've been faintly amused that the 'Conservatives for In' campaign, of all people, have repeatedly been lobbying outside Finsbury Park station. Not sure that they are the best advocates around here.

gardener-joe

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south_to_north

Was thinking that myself! Every other house down my way has an in poster. There's even a person with an EU flag flying out of their window on Tollington Park.

Really we're very much on In turf - North London lefties and all that. Would be a very different picture in Stoke on Trent. Or even somewhere like Bromley for that matter....

Arkady

Good question. Seems that the poll plug-in doesn't work with the new site upgrade. At some point I will try to fix that, but that won't be today I'm afraid.

Papa

As I cycle round London all I see are Remain posters, when I drive outside of it all I see is Leave ones.

Sutent

It's been a very nasty exit campaign. Can't be good for the immigrants who prop up our economy and health system to live in.

HolbornFox

Crazy that the farmers of Essex etc want out... They benefit. Equally crazy that people think it will effect immigration.

I have offered to bet anyone any amount that the outcome will be in. .. I even voted out to prove it. Conspiracy theorist? Maybe. :-O

Papa

It's been a pretty crappy campaign on both sides, the fringes of both haven't done themselves any favours for different reasons. That UKIP poster was so moronic that it looked like a Chris Morris sketch. @HolbornFox - I don't think it's crazy. I know people who work in farming as employees not farm owners. Many working in farming are paid an absolute pittance, a situation that is contributed to by the fact that if they aren't willing to take the low wages, there is another person waiting behind them who will - something in which immigration plays a major factor. If you are local and trying to earn a living, get a place to live and support a family on that kind of low money then I wouldn't find it surprising if you were tempted to resent those who helped keep wages down and were willing to accept lower earnings because they were sharing a room and sending the money back to somewhere that it went a lot further. And I say that as someone who is pro-freedom of movement and thinks people should be able to work and live in any country they choose. I can see why some disagree with me though.

HolbornFox

I'm not talking about farm workers I'm talking about the farmers who are normally rich.

Apparently Costa et all can pay migrants lower wages then then the natives, I find that odd on many levels.

Arkady

Study after study after study has shown that EU migration has hardly any impact (if any at all) on wages. Real wages at the lower end of the scale have largely been frozen since the 1970s in all developing countries, regardless of whether they have had mass migration. Countries that have done better than average in that respect (Germany, Scandinavia) have had a) higher than average migration and b) reasonably strong and active trade unions - surprise surprise. It is neoliberalism that has frozen wages and created growing inequality, not migration. This recent study suggests that Brexit would make wages worse, not better: http://www.psi.org.uk/site/blog_index/will_brexit_increase_british_wages

Ali

Farmers are like turkeys voting for chrstmas if it is brexit and they have to compete on woirld markets they will collapse. Farm workers gave always been paid badly. What ever happened to the Agriculture Wages Board?

south_to_north

Just seen a few out posters in croydon. In fact, I'm sitting opposite a woman in a wetherspoons with a "LEAVE THE EU" shirt on. I have a remain sticker on.... Let the staring contest commence....

miss annie

I'm not a 'North London Lefty' but I voted In. It seems utterly mental to do anything else, especially as I work with lots of Europeans, for a company that has branches in Europe and trades with European suppliers. Everyone I work with is Remain, as I do work with almost exclusively educated lefties. The worrying thing is that almost all of our parents are retired, out of town Leavers - Labour & Tory alike.

miss annie

And I have a Remain poster and two stickers!

minim

I'm heartbroken. As an EU immigrant it's hard not to take it personally, but most of all I'm worried for what it means for this country I've called home for the last 12 years. We seem more divided than ever before.

Sutent

A very sad day for this country

Arkady

The shame.

HolbornFox

Wow!

A sad day? The shame? Hardly, it's obviously what the people outside the Republic of Islington want.

Arkady

All my American friends are asking why we're emulating Trump. They're showing Farage's vicious speech on loop over there. That's why I'm ashamed. I feel like a stranger in my own country. I have been awake for 26 hours, and am quite cross. Please excuse any tetchiness from me today.

HolbornFox

People feel like strangers in their own city that's why they move to essex, and are then called thick.

It's sickening that anyone who voted out is now being branded as *insert here*

Typical left.

south_to_north

This isn't good. But it's best to try not to slip too much into hyperbole. There'll be a recession, but in the long run the world isn't going to end.

That is, unless this causes the collapse of the EU over the next few years, which would undoubtedly be catastrophic..... But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

HolbornFox

Good to see the ones calling everyone else thick and firebrands shouting outside Boris Johnson's house today... disgrace.

Germany are in trouble now.

south_to_north

I feel bad for the civil servants, this is going to be a multi-year headache....

Love how Farage et al have been calling for quick negotiation of trade deals. Not likely given we don't really have any trade negotiators anymore (almost all done by Brussels)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3c76e90a-270e-11e6-8ba3-cdd781d02d89.html#axzz4CU9o2V22

Also, what is wrong with you Sunderland?! Don't think that Nissan factory is going to be sticking around with no tariff free access to Europe. If that happens that community would be decimated.

HolbornFox

Good job the EU funded Ford to go to Turkey already then.

Oh yes sorry that's the southern part of England again, no matter.

south_to_north

The point still remains. I understand it that former ford workers would want out, but by the same token a town that is dominated by a factory like that should not have voted to leave. Only a failure on the part of the remain campaign can account for that....

HolbornFox

I think people have had enough of working in a car factory while being patronised for having an opinion on their own country by the guardianistas to be honest.

Look at the scorn poured on people on here for simply wanting a pub to drink in that has a carpet, anyway what do I know, I voted out, the shame!

Arkady

Brexit isn't going to help those people. Reducing our GDP won't help them. Slipping from the 5th to 6th largest economy won't help them. Restricting freedom of movement won't help them. Alienating overseas residents won't help them. Having to sign up to single market regulations without having influence in shaping said regulations won't help them. This is a colossal act of self-harm, and it's not condescending to voice that opinion.

Arkady

This is how the world sees us right now:

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedUK/status/746282262531039233

HolbornFox

HA HA Wow if you are reading memes to fuel your anger at the proles you probably do need a lie down, be like Bill! Were you at Boris' house earlier?

Arkady

Given your tone it's hard to tell what you really feel about sneering condescension.

miss annie

I think that our London bubble it's very easy to forget that, as was proven yesterday, the rest of the country does not enjoy the same prosperity, job opportunities and standard of living (albeit pricey), as us. My folk live in Essex. They aren't thick or racist but have to deal with the sharp end of austerity in a way that we in London don't.