Corbyn or Smith?

This_Way_Up

Labour leadership election Stroud Green Org poll

miss annie

I don't, but I'd vote Corbyn to make certain that Labour lost the next General Election (s) and spend years slowly tearing themselves apart.

miss annie

I predict you'll get about 85% Corbyn on your poll - he's the MP for us on the Islington side of SG remember, and is always voted in by a majority. I don't think your poll will be an accurate representation of how the country votes. The EU referendum has taught us that there's a divide between how London and the major cities vote (which is what the left leaning newspapers focus on) and the rest of the Kingdom.

south_to_north

I don't like either. The Labour Party is doomed....

Sad thing is that all possible challengers to Corbyn are shite. The fact that Owen smith, who looks like he would cry is someone raised their voice at him, is the best alternative is profoundly depressing. Marvin Rees or Sadiq Khan would be great, but alas they are not MPs.....

kreuzkav

Owen Smith looks like a cliche 90s guardian reader who would gladly have islington theatre project managers on 35 k a year for hanging out drinking wine, doing about 15 hours office work a week and then have someone minding their kids for 9 quid an hour. And I have encountered this situation. It's not a figment of my mind.

therattle

I'm not enamoured with Smith but I think Corbyn has been absolutely dreadful as an opposition leader. There has been so much ammunition to use against the Tories gifted to him and he's been toothless. I also believe that he is unelectable as PM.

kreuzkav

@ the rattle. Corbyn claimed to offer a new type of politics. He certainly has. We live facile spin world of suits, special relations, media baron unions. He don't play that game. He plays a game for sure but it seems a less anadine game. Owen Smith is a nasty New Labour swamy media savy opportunist shit. I hope he sees this. Let's go for the better man, not the media savvy wannabe Blair who will send us to endless war.

Arkady

I'd suggest that Corbyn offers a very old kind of politics; that of the protest campaign. He's very good at it, and doubtless a lovely bloke. But he's the sort of politician that Attlee warned about in the 1940s - though he's employed as a professional politician he's not actually capable of doing that job. He has no management skills or experience. He is unwilling to compromise with any other wing of his party (let alone reach out beyond his party, which any politician must do if they hope to have a chance of governing). I respect him a lot, and I'm pretty close to him on economic policy. But his supporters need to ask themselves whether they want their party to be a protest movement or a party of government. Yes, the latter requires difficult compromise. And yes, some Labour leaders in the past may have compromised too much. But unless Labour are able to appeal to the centre ground then they will concede government to the Tories for the foreseeable future. At the moment they aren't even acting as an opposition, despite the desperate need for one.

south_to_north

@kreuzkav I might agree with you if we had a proportional representation electoral system. But alas first past the post means that those who are further on the left side of the spectrum (who you surely agree more with than the conservatives) are only going to win by appealing to the centre ground. Winning over the unconverted as it were.....

I don't like Owen smith either, and I don't know what would be a better outcome for the election. But labour either need a much more charismatic leader who would do a better job of "marketing" left wing principles to the electorate, or - I'm sorry to say - they might be better off with a "media savvy wannabe blair" in the vain of David miliband. Unless of course said leader takes us into another bloody war, it would be better than the Tories from your perspective no?

(But as I say..... this is what happens with first past the post. Prop rep would solve all of this, while causing some other problems in the process....)

Arkady

Quite so, ideologically purity is more practicable in a PR system. Though even then, as we saw in 2010-15, we would need a culture change on the left so that every compromise was not seen as treachery.

south_to_north

@Arkady hadn't even considered that. The lib dems certainly got the short end of the stick there, whoever was their director of communications obviously was useless at his or her job. Other subsequent coalition partners I think would learn the lessons from that fiasco though....

Arkady

One would hope so. To be fair, smaller coalitions parties tend to suffer electorally even on then continent. But at least there isn't the same delusional knife-in-the-back hysteria when some polices have to be dropped in order to successfully implement others. To their credit, the right are actually pretty good at that sort of pragmatism (the Tories being to power what a limpet is to a salty rock).

kreuzkav

PR in the Republic of Ireland has led to interesting times in politics. I'm all for it. The biggest truck with it is from staunch Tory or Labour people. I voted Yes for the record for PR. It wasn't a bad Yes vote.

Arkady

I don't mean to be a pedant (I do), but we've never had the chance to vote for PR in the UK. AV is still a crappy majoritarian system.

Ali

Kreuz "We live facile spin world of suits, special relations, media baron unions. He don't play that game." What about Traingate then ?

Arkady

Traingate, summarised: https://storify.com/thhamilton/traingate

south_to_north

Reads like an episode of The Thick of It.....

Sutent

I have voted for Corbyn in the labour election.

krappyrubsnif

It's neck and neck!

therattle

@Arkady: "I'd suggest that Corbyn offers a very old kind of politics; that of the protest campaign. He's very good at it, and doubtless a lovely bloke. But he's the sort of politician that Attlee warned about in the 1940s - though he's employed as a professional politician he's not actually capable of doing that job. He has no management skills or experience. He is unwilling to compromise with any other wing of his party (let alone reach out beyond his party, which any politician must do if they hope to have a chance of governing). I respect him a lot, and I'm pretty close to him on economic policy. But his supporters need to ask themselves whether they want their party to be a protest movement or a party of government. Yes, the latter requires difficult compromise. And yes, some Labour leaders in the past may have compromised too much. But unless Labour are able to appeal to the centre ground then they will concede government to the Tories for the foreseeable future. At the moment they aren't even acting as an opposition, despite the desperate need for one." Very well put. Couldn't agree with it more. The one thing I do like about Corbyn is some (not all) of his policies. But he will never have the chance to implement them, and he can't do a sufficiently good job as opposition leader to sway the current government towards them at all (or away from their policies). I also feel that if he isn't anti-Semitic himself, he's been pretty tolerant of it in the past.

krappyrubsnif

The trouble with Owen is that he looks and sounds like the assistant manager of a Tesco Metro in Glamorgan. Would you trust him to get the date-expired kippers off the shelf?

TheMimsy

@ Krappy
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/08/yesterday-showed-us-real-owen-smith-and-it-aint-pretty

krappyrubsnif

Well, but he is not a Saint, like Jezza

Ali

Do you think Jeremy is happy about the vote to leave Europe?

krappyrubsnif

Yes

south_to_north

Right that's it...... Smith has proposed a graduate tax. Not because it's a good idea of course, but because it polls well..... It's such a cynical move.

As I said above, the Labour Party is doomed....

maclondon

It is all pretty depressing because without a strong opposition the Conservatives will rule the roost, particularly if Scotland takes its toys away post - Brexit. Of course, given the conservatives smugness and lack of agreement or even professionalism around Brexit, they could implode too - where is the Monster Raving Loony party when you need them?

Ali

Talki g smugness what do you mean by Scotland takings toys away?

Scotland very clearly voted Remain and will want as much of EU membership to stay if not then the people may be given other options. I don't think Scotland wants to be told what to yet again by England

Ali

What has happened to the Libdems Will they make a comeback as a pro Europe party or just get rid of Tim Farron.
Did read I think In Private Eye that Cleggers fancies his chances.

krappyrubsnif

It’s still neck and neck.........

Sutent

Well done Jeremy on his win. Hopefully the media will focus on his polices now.It is such an exciting time for politics and with so many people having joined the labour party.