Depressing Bridge

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  • @krappyrubsnif the conspiracy theories and cynicism are more than a little misplaced - the owner of the big development is a well known philanthropist who's done more than most for local causes..

    http://www.benkinsella.org.uk/news/our-wonderful-patron-jack-morris-to-be-awarded-a-cbe
  • First homeless person sleeping outside the Goodwin street enterance. The security were not moving them. Maybe they will be allowed to be there
  • Struggle to see that lasting when the residents move in later this year.
  • As has been noted before, the local charities have admitted there's no reason for the rough sleepers to be around as they've all been offered a lot of help and accommodation. IMHO, and being a heartless bastard, I feel like the council should get a bit more tough as I'm a real believer in the one broken window theory.
  • The broken window theory is alright if you believe in civil obedience, unfortunately civil obedience only ever seems to lead to the removal or rights.

    And anyway, how would the hang wringing newspapers fill their columns / blame the Tories if there was no one pretending to be homeless to get some money for some scag?
  • Met police all over Station and the Park tonight, good to see stop and searches happening
  • edited February 2020
    This year so far the area around the station feels cleaner and safer so going into the right direction. Hopefully that trend continues.
  • LHILHI
    edited December 2020
    I want to set the record straight about what really happened to the people sleeping rough under the Stroud Green Rd bridge in Finsbury Park.

    The pavement on the left under the is Islington council, and the right side is a Haringey council.

    Islington council, Haringey council, St Mungo’s and Streets Kitchen formed a partnership to move them on to streets elsewhere by repeatedly stealing their tents, mattresses, sleeping bags, clothes and belongings during “clean ups”, leaving them in just the clothes they were wearing.

    I tweeted about this many times but Islington council’s housing chief Diarmaid Ward and Streets Kitchen both blocked me to try to stop me speaking out. I didn’t know stroudgreen.org existed until this week so I’m only getting the chance to speak out about what happened now.

    Most of the people sleeping rough under the bridge were priority need homeless under Housing Act 1996 Part VII 189 and Homelessness (Priority Need for Accommodation) Order 2002: which means Islington / Haringey council had to rehouse them and provide temporary accommodation. But the St Mungo’s homeless outreach team did not inform them. St Mungo’s never tell people sleeping rough their rights.

    I spoke with a woman sleeping rough under the bridge who became homeless after fleeing domestic violence in Haringey. She was sleeping on the Islington side of the bridge. She was priority need homeless because she was fleeing domestic violence and therefore had the right for both Islington and Haringey councils to rehouse her. She told me she had gone out and when she returned Islington council were doing a “clean up” and had stolen her makeshift tent, mattress, bedding, clothes and belongings and had them in the back of the truck. She grabbed them back, only for Islington council to it again soon after, leaving her with just the clothes she was wearing. Islington council left her to sleep on the hard, cold, wet pavement with no tent, mattress, bedding and no clothes or belongings.

    The “safe secure accommodation” Islington council claimed to have offered people sleeping rough under the bridge was a St Mungo’s shelter on Camden Rd which Islington council commissioned for 14 days for purpose of claiming they had offered roughsleepers “safe secure accommodation”. But hardly any of the people sleeping rough stayed there, and the few who did were kicked out back to the streets when the shelter closed after 14 days. Islington council paid John Glackin of Streets Kitchen to work at the shelter. This explains why “homeless grassroots organisation” Streets Kitchen repeatedly praised Islington council for the clean ups during which roughsleepers’ tents, mattresses, bedding, clothes and belongings were repeatedly stolen.

    As the people sleeping rough under the Bridge kept returning to the same spot after having everything they owned repeatedly stolen, Islington council decided to install high metal barriers against the wall under the bridge for many, many months to stop them returning with the excuse it was to “fix the lighting”. As the pavement was barricaded the people sleeping rough had no choice but to sleep rough elsewhere.

    I’m sure that the tent on a raised bed on Stroud Green Rd that caught fire was because the man in the tent knew that bit of land on the raised bed belonged to Network Rail and therefore the tent stealing partnership couldn’t touch his tent. The raised bed wall is higher that the soil, which must have caused the candle inside to fall over, causing the mattress and tent to burn.
    http://islingtontribune.com/article/after-tent-fire-calls-for-action-to-prevent-homeless-deaths-in-winter
  • edited December 2020
    LHI, I'm sorry, but that's grossly unfair to both councils, the councillors involved in this issue and the local Charities trying to help out.

    And trust me I've had email conversations with the councillors about their inaction - but your characterisation of the council's as effectively preying on the homeless is incorrect: they've been doing a lot, especially Cllr Diarmaid Ward who's in charge of this portfolio at Islington council.

    This is some info relayed to me after an email exchange in which I was angry at the lack of action from the council's - this tells the other side of the story.

    '''Over the last two years, our (Islington's) outreach team has supported 38 people into accommodation who were bedding down at Stroud Green Road. The outreach team continue to visit the surrounding area to engage with those who continue to sleep rough instead of accessing accommodation. Each person has a lead worker and a route away from the streets plan. Earlier this year (2019) we worked with the Glasshouse Shelter to support people move away from the streets and link into the support they need. This was an exciting project supported by Housing Justice and the London Mayor. We supported these individuals to move onto stable accommodation ahead of the shelter closing. The Hornsey Road Traders Association donated £3,500 to this shelter and the support offered from the local community has been overwhelming and contributed to the success of the project.

    Islington Council’s priority is getting people into safe, secure accommodation and giving them the support they need to move off the streets permanently, where they are at significant risk. Islington Council works together with a wide range of partners to ensure a holistic approach is offered.

    Some individuals, despite having access to accommodation and wrap around support, continue to return to the area – being drawn back due to substance use. We are concerned that the vulnerable people here are being exploited by drug dealers, taking money in exchange for Class A drugs and that this area is becoming hostile as a result. We also believe one of the draws to this location is that people are being given large sums of money by generous and well-meaning members of the public which is funding their substance use. This is why some people are reluctant to engage with support on offer to move away from the streets. The temporary structures are a health and safety hazard to those that sleep in them. There are some people, who despite continued offers of accommodation and support, remain at this location and their health and wellbeing is deteriorating placing them at risk of harm.

    We continue to look at innovative ways in which we can support people and continue to review the needs of those rough sleeping. We now have a new No recourse to public funds worker and a complex needs worker, who are able to offer greater support to those on the streets with these needs. We continue to work with the local neighbourhood police teams, safer transport police and British Transport police to ensure co-ordinated efforts in addressing drug-related activity and criminality. We have recently secured a civil injunction against an individual who persisted in engaging in anti-social behaviour in the area. Islington and Haringey Council, along with relevant partners meet regularly to review support for individuals and wider approach.'''

    I would also add a few key facts that I've learnt after talking to the local police on the beat:

    - An individual who is rough sleeping but has substance abuse issues cannot be housed in your usual sheltered accomodation as it's deemed a risk to the other residents - that complicates matters and the cost of housing quite a lot.
    - Many of the repeated offenders (illegally) begging during the day on mattresses do not sleep there - coming home from late shifts at 4am confirms this, might be worth having a look yourself. The 'homeless' under the bridge are there during high footfall times, but rarely sleep there.
    - The council is not 'stealing' homeless people's stuff at random. They give the people there plenty of repeat notice that they must move on, or for the safety and cleanliness of the rest of us using the bridge passage.

    I commend your concern, and you've been touched by the plight of these poor people, but, as with all discussions, the issue is more complex that you think and are linked with drug dealing, dependency, cost to the council, and repeated help that's been offered.
  • Can confirm what Luke says about people begging during during the day not sleeping there at night.
  • LHILHI
    edited December 2020
    Diarmaid Ward’s fiction vs facts

    I’m telling you what’s happening from the inside, not what Islington council wants people to believe.
  • What I'm giving is the council's and elected councillors point of view, as I'm sure you'd agree it's good to have both sides of the story.

    I rarely find myself agreeing with the council, but in this case, and after living in the area and walking/cycling under the bridge, chatting to people involved, I am very sceptical that anyone is being purposely left to sleep outside without numerous hands being extended to help out - both Haringey and Islington are spending tens, if not hundreds of thousands of pounds housing 500 homeless people in the local travel lodge during Covid (Google it).

    As I have underlined, go out in the middle of the night, there are no rough sleepers under the bridge rn and if people are losing places in accomodation, then there is a reason behind that, it's a tough subject, but sometimes substance abuse and bad behaviour means that local shelters cannot house individuals as they are a risk to the other residents.
  • LHILHI
    edited December 2020
    It is true most people begging during the day in Finsbury Park, as elsewhere in London, are not sleeping rough or even homeless and are begging to feed their heroin and / or crack addiction. Anybody begging without all their belongings with them - a huge backpack, suitcase, trolley, bags for life, or a combination of these - is not sleeping rough and has a home. I’m talking about people sleeping rough at night - not beggars with a home. And let’s not confuse beggars with a home addicted to drugs with genuine roughsleepers, most of which don’t do drugs.

    The reason there are no roughsleepers under the Stroud Green Rd bridge on Finsbury Park is because they’ve been moved on to pavements elsewhere after Islington council repeatedly stealing their makeshift tents, pop up tents, mattresses, sleeping bags, clothes and all their belongings. Certainly not because they’ve been rehoused despite most being priority need homeless! Islington council and their housing chief Diarmaid Ward don’t work that way.

    There were also several people sleeping rough under the covered area next to Angel station and now they’ve all disappeared. Have they disappeared because Islington council has rehoused them? Of course not!

    My friend was sleeping rough next to Angel station and for at least 9 months Islington council and St Mungo’s outreach and NRPF Network, both commissioned by Islington council, coerced him to return to Montreal in Canada against his will to sleep rough there. The average temperature in winter is -12° and gets as low as -20°.

    He had been in the UK for 10 years and being half French he has a French passport, so was entitled to settled status to stay in London forever as he wished. He is autistic and has a learning disability so was priority need homeless, entitled to be temporary accommodation and to be rehoused by Islington council. Once he was given settled status he would have been entitled to universal credit, housing benefit and PIP. But Islington council, St Mungo’s outreach and NRPF Network did not at all inform him about what he was entitled to. They were only interested in removing him from Islington and forcing him on a one way flight to Montreal to sleep rough there, this is how Islington council “reduces” roughsleeping in Islington.

    St Mungo’s Islington homeless outreach stole his French passport, which they tricked him to handover for “safekeeping”. They forced him to sign documents without reading them and without any advocate ever, so he has no idea what it is he signed.

    When after 9 months he still refused to return to a Canada Islington council, St Mungo’s outreach and NRPF Network bought a flight ticket to Montreal in Canada and suitcases for the flight. He repeatedly asked for his passport back to apply for settled status, universal credit, housing benefit, PIP, a disabled freedom pass and to make a homeless application to Islington council to be rehoused but they would hang up the phone and refused to return it.

    His mental health was severely deteriorating, he was having hallucinations and hearing voices due to being forced to return against his will.

    They told him to go to a meeting at the Islington council offices in Upper St. He asked me to go with him as his advocate because due to being autistic and having a learning disability he could not stand up to Islington council, St Mungo’s outreach and NRPF Network.

    As soon as we arrived he asked for his passport back again and they refused. I was there as his advocate but they refused to let me in the meeting. They said they would only give him his passport back if he went into the meeting on his own while I waited in reception and then I could go in with him. Not being able to read between the lines, he went in on his own.

    I waited and waited and waited but was not asked to go in. After more than a hour I knocked on the glass door of the interview room. The woman looked at me angrily and called for the security guard to remove me from the building immediately. The security guard didn’t because while waiting I had already explained they had stolen his passport and were trying to force him on a flight against his will.

    I returned to reception and then saw him and the woman go through a door. Unknown to me that was the back door. They kidnapped him at took him somewhere where he could not get help until they forced him on the flight a few days later. They took his phone off him to stop him calling me or anybody for help, it was always dead from that point onwards.

    After emailing many homeless organisations in Montreal I found out he had indeed been forced on a flight to Montreal. He has been missing ever since. As the average temperature in winter is -12° and gets as low as -20°, he must be dead. This is how Islington council “reduces” roughsleeping in Islington.

    This one way ticket scheme for roughsleepers to return is called Reconnection Scheme. It’s funded by the Mayor of London and is supposed to be “voluntary“. But it is not at all voluntary and roughsleepers from the EU across London are coerced or forced to return against their will to sleep rough there. They are never informed that they can apply for settled status and are then entitled to universal credit, and in many cases to be rehoused by the council because they are priority need homeless. The organisations making referrals to the Reconnection scheme get bonuses for each person sleeping rough they get rid of.
  • edited December 2020
    I've often found myself angry at thinly veiled move-alongs disguised as 'deep cleans' under the bridge. No-one is comfortable walking down past such visible inequality and poverty but the response always seems to be to hide it away so we don't feel so bad any more, forgetting to treat those people like humans. Every time I've tried to read more widely into what's happening, there are a tonne of conflicting accounts. All anyone who lives under there has said to me is that the help they're getting isn't working. What do you guys, both clearly more informed than most, suggest is the best course of action for someone like me, ie J Bloggs, to actually make some difference for the homeless in our area?
  • edited December 2020
    LHI, you're not engaging with my points at all. Regarding deportation to Canada it's clear what the rules say - deportation is the LAST resort when all other offers of help, including priority accomodation, is refused.

    Clearly your friend has had a hard time, but what do you actually propose the council do?

    As noted all homeless in London are currently being accommodated in hotels at the expense of the government coffers, and they have tried to offer every single person on the streets an alternative.

    Wellaye, it's a topic that's been ummed and ahd about constantly, not least on this forum - I can't really say what I'd propose, but my point is that the council is trying it's hardest and so is the government who are spending millions already to help the homeless.

    I personally believe that the help on offer for the homeless on the streets is adequate as compared to per head of population, the UK has lower levels of homelessness compared to Germany and NZ - both countries that we'd like to compare ourselves to.
    - however for more complex cases of drug and alcohol addiction it's not as simple as it's extremely difficult to rehouse such cases in central London where housing is already stretched and a high level of support is needed.

    I'd add that politicians trying to block deportation as a last resort, of the long-term homeless who reject help offered, is not really going to garner much sympathy given all the hardship people are going through now. It's a simple question of resource allocation and how much you dedicate to one group or another - which to be fair, we rarely have that adult conversation in the UK. I don't really think it's the British Taxpayers responsibility to look after individuals who'd best be supported in their home countries for a whole host of reasons, not least familiarity with the local rules and language.

    Some more bits to ponder - Adult social care is Haringey is already the highest expenditure for the council: a quick Google sees it at £75m/£242m collected - the next biggest spend is children services at £54m. Source: Council Tax Guide 2020/2021 - Haringey Council.

    Recent comments about the deportation of homeless and Haringey's stance:
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/07/council-refusing-help-home-office-deport-rough-sleepers-homeless

    I think what's frustrating about this debate is the whole nuance is lost - the council, charities and home office try their best and activists on both sides make the UK look like a uniquely evil or uniquely soft touched on the issues, when in reality we're probably somewhere in the middle - we try our best and can improve, and there are also some elements that could be made stricter so that taxpayers don't feel like they're being taken advantage of.

    What's making me lol the most is that Haringey and Islington - possibly the most left wing places on earth are being branded as thugs above, and that's a bit of a joke.
  • LHILHI
    edited December 2020
    @LukeG Deported??? You either have not read and / or have not understood what I wrote.

    My friend is French, entitled to settled status because he had been in the UK for 10 years. He did not have a Canadian passport, the only passport he had was a French passport. He was not deported but kidnapped and forced on a one way flight against his will by Islington council and Islington St Mungo’s homeless outreach and NRPF Network who are both commissioned and funded by Islington council. EU nationals cannot be deported.

    They stole his French passport to stop him applying fo the EU Settlement Scheme and refused to return it. They had been coercing him for at least 9 months, knowing that he was an extremely vulnerable adult, autistic and with a learning disability. We he still refused they forced him on a one way flight to Montreal in Canada to sleep rough in -20 degrees to die in the snow. This is how Islington council “reduce roughsleeping in Islington”.

    Some roughsleepers being put up in hotels during coronavirus is irrelevant to this topic, so I don’t know why you bring it up. Roughsleepers under the Stroud Green Rd bridge were long gone before coronavirus, harassed to pavements elsewhere by constant “clean ups” during which all their tents, sleeping bags, clothes and belongings were repeatedly stolen and binned.

    Most roughsleepers are still on the streets, sleeping in parks, bin sheds,night buses, trains etc during coronavirus as always. Only a small number were put up in hotels for a short time, then kicked out back to the streets. They were only put in hotels after repeatedly asking homeless outreach for many weeks or months. I’m exhomeless and most of the people I know who were sleeping rough before coronavirus are still sleeping rough.

    The government falsely claim they’ve this and that for roughsleepers and as homeless people don’t have a voice it’s not possible for us to speak out about what is really happening. And when we do our voices are silenced, such as Islington council housing boss Diarmaid Ward blocking me on Twitter to stop me replying to his tweets with the truth. Everything you read in the media about homelessness is the fantasy version the government and homeless charities want people to believe because that’s who newspapers and TV news are asking, never people sleeping rough, so inevitably it bears little resemblance to reality.

    The only way to get into a hotel is through Streetlink / St Mungo’s homeless outreach, who have unlawfully deported roughsleepers from EU, and then when that was found to be unlawful they coerced roughsleepers from EU on “voluntary” one way Reconnection scheme to sleep rough in their countries. As a result people sleeping rough absolutely hate St Mungo’s, ask any roughsleeper about St Mungo’s and most have a story to tell about all the terrible things St Mungo’s homeless outreach have done to them or their friends, Roughsleepers from EU are actually in hiding from St Mungo’s and this is the reason most roughsleepers are sleeping in places where they can’t be seen, for their own safety. By making access to hotels only through St Mungo’s the government have made them inaccessible to roughsleepers from EU.

    In addition, since 1 Dec 2000 new immigration rules are that anybody from EU sleeping rough can be deported purely for sleeping rough, even when they have been in the UK for 5, 10, 20 or 30 years and have worked and paid taxes, regardless of having settled status or not. This is like the Windrush scandal all over again. Roughsleepers cannot get into a hotel because by disclosing to St Mungo’s homeless outreach they’re sleeping rough, St Mungo’s is going to get them deported. Homeless “charities“ such as St Mungo’s have been getting bonuses for years for each roughsleeper they get rid of.

    Councils like Islington and Haringey now claiming they’re not going to work with the Home Office to deport roughsleepers from 1 Dec 2020 beggars belief, they’ve been doing exactly that for years!
  • @wellaye I already am. I’m exhomeless and have an information website for homeless people in London which gets more than 200 visitors a day. It has every information people sleeping rough could possibly need - how to apply for settled status, how to apply for benefits, how to make a homeless application to the council, where to get free food, showers, laundry, clothes, toiletries etc.
    http://londonhomelessinfo.wordpress.com
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