Is this now the grooviest bit of Stroud Green?

Arkady

A great deal of the 'decline' is because of the way huge numbers of people are funnelled down under the SGR bridge since the Wells Terrace entrance was suspended. The bridge area now has enormous footfall through an area of artificial shelter from the elements. As the Council submissions have shown, a percentage of that footfall are people who are donating to the homeless. A large percentage of the homeless have very obvious drug problems, and that is facilitating a very specific kind of drugs economy with all that comes with it. If the users weren't being given money to support their habits then they would be more inclined to take up and stick with the Councils' offers of assistance. But instead of people using their compassion to give money to shelters, they instead give it directly to the homeless despite the vast amount of evidence and formal guidance on the issue. Thus the social catastrophe is perpetuated through the misapplication of otherwise worthy human kindness. Why people have failed to learn the really very obvious lessons of this escapes me.

miss annie

I used to get my boyfriend at the time to meet me from FP tube to walk to Victoria Rd which was rough as a bear's bum. A woman was gang raped and set on fire after being snatched at the Tube when we were dating, there had been numerous sexual assaults and drug related crimes, and the roads around Queens Drive were a prostitution hotspot - hence the barriers to stop kerbcrawling. The area felt quite unsafe.

Flash forward 30 years and there's a potent smell of drugs, a homeless shanty town under the bridge, and a load of teenagers stabbing each other. It doesn't feel as dicey as it used to to me as a middle aged white woman. I work late and come out of the Tube around 11pm. I walk on my own as my chap is at home cooking my dinner.

conformable_kate

The bridge is horrible and depressing, but I don't find it scary. The dodgy areas are where there is no one to notice an attack. But as miss Annie says, middle aged white women are probably not on the frontline here. That said, I've lived here over 20 years (since before I was middle aged) and have never had any problems. And so far, touch wood, nor have my kids - the worst soot for getting phones nicked was crouch end after school.

LukeG

Ah, that's good to hear that at least it's got better all these years. I guess maybe we just need to get used to it; obviously I'm not likely to be a target of more than a mugging for sure, I don't deal so I'm not likely to be involved in a gang stabbing. I'm still going to collect my GF from the station as she is still going to feel scared, so a lot can be attributed to fear of those guys loitering around after dark acting tough: Still I feel like the council could make a bigger effort to clear up the mess and move people on. I guess we'll see what happens with the new station exit right.

HolbornFox

When I was young you were much more likely to get mugged in zones 1 or 2 then zones 4 or 5, this has now totally reversed.

Equally it was not unusual to hang around with my mates who were from places like Aldgate, Fitzrovia, and Clerkenwell yet now I cannot remember the last time I met someone under 30 from anywhere in zone 1.

I also did my apprenticeship at a firm based at the Elephant; then I was hanging around with working class people from Borough, Bermondsey, Pimlico, and Blackfriars but these people have all gone along with the smoky pubs, betting shops and cafes.


I drove past the hoardings on Homerton High Street the other day. Hackney Council are pronouncing something like "20 NEW COUNCIL HOMES BEING BUILT HERE!" in big bold letters.

It is a shame they fail to mention that on that very site there was about 100 council flats in one block previously, so that is zones 3 and zone 4 being cleared out.


If you think SG is 'edgy' then I would suggest you steer clear of places like Ilford, Thornton Heath or Ponders End.

cmo

@Arkady very true - in my continuing chats with SG police, they say that every dealer they pick up has pockets full of pound coins (given in exchange for drugs by people begging). It's completely understandable that people want to give money to homeless people, its ultimately charity but you are IMO correct, its misguided; funds being directed towards Shelter would go a lot further.

@HolbornFox also agree, SG isn't edgy, there's a charcuterie opening in between the craft beer shop and the organic health food store! - a quick walk to the Holloway Road would open a few eyes.

miss annie

Holloway Rd and the stretch of Seven Sisters Rd from Nag's Head crossroads to Hornsey Rd is my favourite local shopping area. There is nothing I need on a daily basis that I can't buy there, every kind of food shop and so much more. It's also completely brilliant for prop making and craft supplies.
Holloway Rd is not at all edgy!

HolbornFox

I like to have a few £2.50 Carlsberg beers in the Enkel on Seven Sisters and then walk 100 yards to the Swimmers for a few £5 Paulaner Hefe-Weizen beers.

I like the people and the staff at both pubs despite the obvious differences and it very much brings home how lucky we are to live in a genuinely mixed area, long may it continue.

HolbornFox

Now if they would just turn the Coffee Fruit sun trap into beer and spritz bar i would be truly happy.

Ali

I always thought the barriers on the roads was to stop rat running by drivers.

The new Wells Terrace entrance/exit to the tube is I believe on private land so it will be interesting to see what the landlord is prepared to put up with.

Charcuterie, well it looks like we getting a few of these as one is about to open in the old Farmers Deli up the road near to the other organic shop

cmo

@miss annie apologies, I meant really as comparison to stroud green - I lived in Holloway for ten years before moving here, by comparison, edgy.

adrienbe

The new tube entrance will definitely help as the flow of people giving money under the bridge will drop. SG is on paper probably one of the best location in "central" london but there is still this ghetto feeling that you have when you meet the wrong individuals zoning or around some part of sg road (beginning of that road is quite bad around the car wash).

LukeG

I'm sorry if any of my comments are being understood as an excercise in cleansing, and I've lived in far 'edgier' parts than SG lol.

What I'm saying at the end of the day is that there's a sense of criminality (i.e. having to pick up my GF late) & a complete mess around the bridges that needs to be sorted out (included imho the car washes) everything else is great.

I don't think that cleaning the place up and getting the dealer problem sorted is really going to gentrify anything, I just like nice stuff that everyone in the community can share, rather than low expectations.

miss annie

We all like nice stuff, there is plenty here. Apart from the shops, bars and cafes there is a thriving farmers market, supper clubs, book clubs, creative writing groups, a women's institute, a distillery and so much more. Have you got involved in any of the community things or do you just like the thought of living somewhere that has them?

What thoughts have you had about solving the issues of homeless people under the bridge, drug dealers etc aside from not wanting to see them? We live in an area that has a lot of hostels, temporary accomodation, and AirBnBs, people living in these are not so invested in their surroundings as they are here only for a short time. I don't see this changing, there is always going to be a large proportion of people here for whom this area is just a short term bed.

HolbornFox

Where is the distillery?

miss annie

Other end of the Parkland Walk - Highgate. I think of it as partly ours because it connected that way.

HolbornFox

OK there is a cider maker the on Landseer Road as well, it's a lovely drop too.

gardener-joe

When is the new Wells Terrace tube entrance now set to open? Anyone know?

miss annie

The shop units look near completion.

Arkady

Supposed to be some time this year. Doesn't look far off.

LukeG

Oh yes Annie, sorry, I love the area haha! I'm specifically chatting about the bridges area near the station not the wider area which is great.

I mean the drugs/homelessness is a bit of chicken and egg situation and I don't really know what shelters are meant to be doing with addicts (as usually there's a non-admittance policy for those with addiction issues).

Nope I'm all for starting with policing the station and bottom of the park aggressively to shift the dealers, there are several really blatant stash houses around the park that have been in operation for at least two years which are so obvious I don't know what the police are waiting for. It's so easy to score down there and the police are barely around.

I think if efforts started at that end, then I'm sure the council/charities and health services have ways they can help the homeless. I'm also pretty sure that a more sensible drug policy from the government would help...

miss annie

I think the police monitor the places they know about, and those are not just around the park. What would you like to happen to them?

LukeG

I don't know, I would hope if they know there are dealers operating from a house, they'd be going through their door at the first opportunity?

Until stuff gets legalised, the negative effects of dealing on the community outweigh the 'laissez faire' liberal side of my personality.

LHI

Arkady, you say “a large percentage of the homeless have very obvious drug problems, and that is facilitating a very specific kind of drugs economy with all that comes with it.”

Don’t stereotype homeless people as junkies and crackheads - the vast majority are not.

You’re confusing beggars with a home with people sleeping rough. Very few beggars are sleeping rough, or even homeless.

The people you see begging are people with a flat who are addicted to crack and / heroin and are begging to fund their addiction. They may use a sleeping bag as a begging prop, but that’s all it is, a begging prop. They get their sleeping bags for free from homeless day centres and homeless outreach workers who can’t tell the difference because they have no lived experience of homelessness.

Anybody begging without all their belongings with them is not sleeping rough - a huge backpack, suitcase, trolley, bags for life, or combination of those. When they are begging emptyhanded it’s because all their belongings are at home.

When you’re sleeping rough at the night, the last thing you’re going to do is sit on the pavement during the day.

People sleeping rough rarely beg and many get offended when given money unsolicited, for example when some drops £5 into their sleeping bag when they’re asleep.