Pub in the park

krappyrubsnif

What do you think of the proposed pub near the Manor House end of the park opening in May?

HolbornFox

You do not have an option to approve (on my screen anyway)?

There is the obligatory online opposition thing to sign if you're against, i think it had 148 signatures the other day.

I approve anyway, i just hope it will be like one of the nice places you encounter in Europe as @grenners mentioned in another thread, normally over here it's buy your tickets from bingobongobazanga.com and its £300 for a 2 hour timed ticket.

TBF Victoria Park did it very well a couple of years ago but it took up a huge space.

krappyrubsnif

Corrected

Scruffy

And (sigh!) you make no provision for those of us (and we are sure to be legion) who, assuming this proposed pub will be neither in the park nor right outside the gate, don’t give a tinker’s cuss.

krappyrubsnif

@Scruffy on the contrary, you are invited to not give a flying firkin, above.

Scruffy

Well, I still prefer to keep a goodly stock of tinker’s cusses, but nonetheless, how did you hear of this pub, @krappyrubsnif ?

krappyrubsnif

https://www.change.org/p/haringey-council-stop-the-pub-in-the-park?recruiter=false&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_initial&utm_medium=whatsapp&utm_content=washarecopy_28583737_en-GB:0&recruited_by_id=8b429f00-a9a1-11eb-9398-cf54e9f10511

Scruffy

Sweet Jesus! I went and signed! Disapprove? The hoi polloi, with their dogs on bits of string, getting pissed in the park and disturbing the ducks? I might just dowse myself in Grouse, and immolate myself in the middle of the running track in protest.

Ali

If ends up like the pop up pubs in Budapest it could be great

LukeG

After the year we've had, let the kids have their space and let go a bit

grenners

It could be great. It has the potential to be superb. I hope it is.

Scruffy

The pubs that have survived the past year—not some shady councillor-bribing opportunists—need the business.

I shall pray for rain.

krappyrubsnif

I shall be praying for waitresses in dirndls and braids and chaps in leather shorts smacking each others' bottoms to the sound of an oompah-band.

Scruffy

Sounds as if you’re praying for a lager-only sort of do, @krappyrubsnif. I should then also be praying for a return visit from those nice Luftwaffe chappies; It would make my running track gesture all the more fitting, since that space was once a gun emplacement.

fwiw

It appears the plan may be cancelled. Local people visiting the park will instead have to tolerate peace and quiet, trees and birds for FOUR MONTHS of the summer instead of a parasitic commercial intrusion.

Just copying/pasting from the other site, but:

https://harringayonline.com/xn/detail/844301:Comment:1426003

"This is to inform you that the application for the Open Arms has been formally withdrawn by the applicants Assembled Gala."

Scruffy

“peace and quiet, trees and birds for FOUR MONTHS of the summer”? “It has the potential to be superb. I hope it is.”

LukeG

nimby boomers strike again

SaveFerris

I think that's rather the point - the park is lots of people's backyards.

fwiw

Summarised perfectly by Islington Council:

http://www.planningservices.haringey.gov.uk/portal/servlets/AttachmentShowServlet?ImageName=1511788

Take that, Haringey!

Ali

I am glad to see from Karen's signature on the letter that she is very "Proper" !!

HolbornFox

Many Snowflakery! Much boomers! Wow.

Scruffy

I remember “quiet enjoyment” being a legal term used in accommodation disputes may years ago (Perhaps it still is). Nonetheless, it seems that no one in Haringey Council had the either the experience or common sense to anticipate Islington’s (nicely put) list of objections.

Ali

Here is the Haringey planning response documnet. Gives the other side of the debate.

https://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/documents/s122807/Assembled GALA Ltd Application 2021 - Cabinet Member Report 2021.pdf
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Ali

It is Haringey who gets the rent. I wonder if this was in an Islinton Park would they take the same attitude or the money?

Ali

seems like it might be run by folks from Newcastle although the company address is in London

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09886417

fwiw

Complete and utter nonsense from start to finish. How can they possibly reconcile:

6.10

"Access to the event will be free of any charge, and the site will be unfenced, allowing ... free-flow movement in and around the venue."

6.18

"Due to the low numbers within the venue at any one time (200), it is anticipated that any noise levels ..."

Was the idea that visitors would diligently count themselves in and out?

LukeG

With Covid rules/usual pub rules there's someone there to monitor the numbers inside the venue.

As stated several times in the document, the money is needed by the council to reinvest in the park. They need to find £15m over 5 years.

I'm really sorry, but after the year we've had, having a social outdoor space with music and beers is just the remedy needed by a lot of people (in particular young people without outdoor space) and it's very annoying that people around the area that have been most angry at the developments are those of a certain age, and who I know have gardens themselves.

I'm not trying to be rude to anyone, but if anything the location could have been moved to somewhere else in the park, but an outright cancellation of the plans, after quite a few other events are being moved or put on hold is not going to be good for the long-term investment of the park and young people choosing this area to live ahead of other locations.

Brodiej

I had always been anti events because i never saw the money generated being spent on the park. However, since Haringey were called out on it, Its been fantastic seeing the investment being made in the children's playground areas, and i believe we have a park that people travel to now, its not just for locals. It's still lacking in several areas (toilets being the main one) so given the pandemic has made every public organisation completely skint, nothing is going to happen unless private money comes in. By law, the money has to be spent on the park. Islington Council has just kyboshed that investment into a Haringey Park. I'm not really convinced on the anti-social side of it given its location near Manor House, so once again i can only think that its political. It is election day tomorrow after all. I'm so fed up of politics.

@fwiw Something slightly more organised would probably be in the interests of the general pleasantness of the park. "Park beers" is a new thing for many people brought on by restrictions and will happen this summer. That's hundreds of people getting on the lash in the sun, all with plenty of rubbish and anti-social behaviour too. They are perfectly within their rights to do that, maybe i'll do it too (i'll take my ruibbish home though), but i would definitely have preferred the pub in the park.

Scruffy

As it seems to be one of the principal arguments for holding “events” in the Park, that the Park should be used in this way to pay (at least in part) for its upkeep, does that mean that the existence (or proposal) of any public utility ought to be justified by its ability to be used commercially? Wilde’s quip about knowing “the price of everything and the value of nothing” comes to mind.

fwiw

I've no objection to people enjoying a few drinks or "park beers" in the sun. Why not?

But for those choosing to leave rubbish, behave antisocially and whatever, I don't think having a shipping container fake pub selling £6 halves of hipster beer in a civilised fenced-off compound (my guess at the Open Arms) would make any difference to their behaviour.

LukeG

The value is people, mostly the young, getting to enjoy a pint with music and entertainment from local acts, as stated in the application. The value is that some people, mostly the local young population don't have a back garden, so it would be nice to have a space that sells beer rather than having to bring warm tinnies into the park. There's nothing wrong with a bit of music in the park, it's something pretty common all over Europe.

The revenue would benefiy the rest of the community who use the park all year, who may not have the benefit of a garden, and who enjoy the well maintained and fully funded park (which also employs a good number of park staff) who also clean the park to get rid of said rubbish, that would be left in the park anyway, whether or not there was this space.

Some people might want to pay for an over priced pint, some might not, but blocking every single event that happens in the park just because it may cause a small inconvenience and bring riff raff to the park is the epitome of the kind of sneering nimby that is becoming so stereotypical of Brits these days.