Cyclists

MarkJ · August 2012

Ok, so can someone explain to me why cyclists don't have to follow the highway code?? Everyday, ...EVERY DAY...when I have to cross the traffic lights on stround green road down by the sainsburys/old dairy/Stapleton arms I wait patiently for the green man to appear before crossing the road, and practically every time I do some 'cyclist' just rides through the lights nearly running me over - the other week one jumped the lights and nearly hit my pregnant wife!! If they're not jumping the lights, they decide to cycle across the pedestrian crossings themselves instead - without slowing down at all - before rejoining the road! ...and most of the time they have headphones on! How is that safe?? I'm all for 'green' travel, but why do these cyclists have to be so inconsiderate, feel they are above the highway code, and more importantly, down right dangerous!?!

miss annie · August 2012

The explanation I can offer is that they are inconsiderate, selfish idiots. Insurance and some way of identifying cyclists should be compulsory!

gardener-joe · August 2012

... the same who cycle the wrong way along one-way streets, because they think their own case-by-case judgement trumps the rules ...

checkski · August 2012

For once I agree with everybody. To think that when I was young cyclists obeyed the rules, and if they didn't - well, I was fined ten shillings for riding without lights, for example. Quite right too. It would never happen now. The fining, I mean. More's the pity.

Mirandola · August 2012

Ok. Next time you're at a junction with a cycle box (space right under the traffic light that's supposed to be reserved for cyclists because they're slower starting than cars) take a look. You might want to reconsider your views on cyclists being unusually badly behaved.

gardener-joe · August 2012

@mirandola: err ... your point relates to which preceding comment?

Mirandola · August 2012

All of them - cyclists are far from perfect but our misdemeanours seem to be noticed and judged more harshly than motorists'. And yes, I know we don't have licences. We also don't kill people. Almost Edited to say - I know most motorists don't kill people either, but it's reasonable enough to ask more of the person in charge of half a ton of metal with the option to go way faster rhan any cyclist ever could.

checkski · August 2012

I was nearly if not killed then badly hurt last week. An elderly gentleman (me) descending stiffly from a bus. suddenly aware of a cyclist tying himself up in knots to reduce from 100 miles an hour to 0 - to avoiding hitting me. The bus had stopped; it was plain people would be getting off; the bastard thought he could rush between pavement and bus, regardless. He did say sorry, though. I'm afraid I just glowered. In my experience all cyclists are like that. You must be one of the few thoughtful ones, Mirandola.

Mirandola · August 2012

I'm not that thoughtful. Especially not in this weather. Sorry to hear of your experience.

[Deleted User] · August 2012

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MarkJ · August 2012

@mirandola ...just to let you know, there have been cases where a cyclist has killed a pedestrian, so you shouldn't really say it never happens. I am well aware of the cycle boxes at the traffic lights and car/van drivers etc, but this has nothing to do with, and does not excuse, cyclists going through red lights - not lights that are changing, but the RED LIGHTS accompanying the green 'pedestrian to cross' lights!!! ... You know, so pedestrians can cross!!!! ...fed up with cyclists endangering other lives along with their own, ...if they can't follow the rules of the road, they shouldn't be on the road!! Oh, and my wife, who is using a wheelchair at the moment, was almost hit twice this afternoon in crouch end, all because cyclists think they can cycle on the pavements!! With one, we were in a crowd waiting to get on a bus and this numpty decides to barge his way through rather than cycling on the road, where he should be!! ....but that's ok though, isn't it?!?

Mirandola · August 2012

@MarkJ, that' why I said almost. I haven't got the numbers to hand but from memory we are talking single figures over a decade. 1800 people died on the roads last year (and the UK has an excellent road safety record compared to pretty much everywhere else). I don't want to sound flippant- cyclists shouldn't speed or cycle on pavements. It's bad and stupid and reckless and I'm very sorry to hear about what happened to you and your wife. But I guess I am puzzled by the level of anger towards cyclists, while motorists who (for example) open their doors in traffic without looking not only don't feel gulity but get hissy at you when you point out rhey could have killed someone. The cycle boxes are there so cyclsts get a head start and are visible and so less likely to be hit by a car. If motorists crowd them up then it feels safer for cyclists to jump the red light.

MarkJ · August 2012

That still doesn't make it right or acceptable. Your feeling aggrieved at motorists and their actions doesn't mean you should ignore the rules of the road. If anything, the issues you highlight should make you be more considerate to those of us that are slower and 'lower down the food chain', especially when it is our right of way.

Mirandola · August 2012

You're right, cyvlists should follow the rules just like everybody else - and I haven't cycled on the pavement since I was seven. But I do think it's unfair to accuse cyclists in general of being dangerous. Most of us are good. Peace?

stroudie · August 2012

<div><span style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: small; ">I'll just leave these stats here... </span></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Pedestrian casualties 2001-09</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Killed by cycles: 18</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Seriously injured by cycles: 434</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Killed by cars: 3,495</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Seriously injured by cars: 46,245</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13040607</font></div>;

gardener-joe · August 2012

Yes stroudie, but you do not tell us (even as an average) how many cars there were on the road - nor the number of cyclists - in the same period. With these stats known, I think we might find the car vs cycle pedestrian hit-rate figures would be (proportionately) less one-sided.

MarkJ · August 2012

don't see what displaying stats has to do with cyclists ignoring the rules of the road... ..are you saying that statistically they kill less people so it's ok??

miss annie · August 2012

Nothing to do with cyclists, just a crossing the road issue - why do people with pushchairs and prams shove them out into the road ahead of themselves when they cross. I notice this particularly when they are crossing somewhere other than a registered crossing.

gardener-joe · August 2012

@miss annie: "why do people with pushchairs and prams shove them out into the road ahead of themselves when they cross". I think the name of the contraption, i.e. pushchair, is a clue to answering your question. Prams work on the same principle. A 'pullchair', and the extension of its design premise to prams, would seem never to have caught on.

yagamuffin · August 2012

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Cyclists are no worse than other road users, they just seem to be more noticeable.</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">Yes, there are lots of stupid cyclists breaking the rules all the time, just like their are car drivers and pedestrians.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">I cycles to work most days and the amount of pedestrians randomly stepping out in to the road, cars overtaking when there isn't enough room and stopping in the green cycle boxes is amazing. And yes, I also see lots of cyclists jumping red lights and going through zebra crossings when pedestrians are crossing, I always stop though - my smoker lungs are always happy to see a red light as it's a chance for a breather!</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">You may as well say all car drivers are selfish inconsiderate idiots. Speeding in residential streets, driving through zebra crossings when people are waiting to cross, jumping red lights, and on and on and on.</font></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div>

yagamuffin · August 2012

And.... As for the tax argument. Road tax and fuel tax are not special, they just go in to the big treasury pot like all other taxes. It's the council tax that everyone pays that goes towards the upkeep of the roads.<div><br></div><div>As for insurance, it really isn't practical for cyclists to have insurance. What the Government should do is set up a third party insurance system, paid for from the current tax system for those rare souls injured by cyclists or un-insured drivers.</div>

graeme · August 2012

Recently started cycling on my commute, and have to agree the general road sense of 90% of other cyclists seems to be completely out the window. <div><br></div><div>I stop at all the red lights/zebras/whatever (though I did accidentally go the wrong way down a one-way street last week), but am flabbergasted by the number of people who skip through junctions. Maybe after doing it for years I'll start doing that as I become as immortal as they are, but it seems self-defeating - it just makes a lot of cyclists look like tools with no respect for anyone else, and for drivers to (perhaps) not respect them as equal road users. </div><div><br></div><div>And when did the majority of cyclists in this city decide it was acceptable to turn corners without indicating, then give pedestrians shit for trying to cross the road the cyclist just appeared down? I see this daily. </div><div><br></div><div>Have so far found drivers to be very considerate as I faff about at difficult junctions, giving plenty of room etc. I do cycle like I own the road right enough, which seems like the best policy.</div><div><br></div><div>cool story bro etc </div>

checkski · August 2012

Speaking as a pedestrian, and public transport user, I know that other people of all sorts can occasionally be a nuisance. I 'm sure I am too, on occasions. I would like to stress and repeat, though, that in my lifetime the most staggering change has come about in the cycling class. They have been transformed from harmless and well behaved to monstrously selfish, dangerous, anarchistic, even. Otherwise decent people become snarling beasts once they are in the saddle. I wonder what has caused this transformation?

checkski · August 2012

And while I was writing the above, there was Graeme, cyclist himself, saying virtually the same thing. Thanks, Graeme. Nice to be agreed with once in awhile!

Ali · August 2012

<P>Graeme I would say that it is more likely that 10% are the bad boys/girls not 90% but I do agree it does seem surprising that more people don't have more road sense.</P> <P>Wearing headphones is plain stupid and asking for it as hearing is one of the ways that you know what is going on around you.</P> <P>Cycle boxes should be enforced with cameras as it would massively improve road safety for cyclists with little loss to the drivers who do obey.</P> <P>Most dangerous I think I come across is drivers turning left with out indicating and people walking straight out in front of you with out looking lost in the world of music or texting.</P> <P>Best tip I have is keep your eyes on what the front weels of the car are doing as they are a pretty good indicator of where the car is going before it does.</P> <P> </P>

NorthNineteen · August 2012

"Best tip I have is keep your eyes on what the front weels of the car are doing as they are a pretty good indicator of where the car is going before it does."<br><br>Good advice, if I'd followed that may have saved me several broken bones due to a non-indicating car turning left off Park Road.<br><br>There are plenty of bad cyclists about who often put themselves at huge and unnecessary risks (going up the inside of lorries, cycling on pavements, headphones etc.) but the vast majority of cyclists do not put others in danger. I often go through red-lights (generally when an all red phase unless I know the phasing) but I have never wizzed through putting pedestrians in danger and I have never seen the type of speeds that people especially the OP refer to. <br><br>Maybe if pedestrians just used dedicated crossings and waited for the Green man we could reduce the number of pedestrian injuries and fatalities from both cars and bikes...?<br>

graeme · August 2012

<P>Hi Ali no I'll stick with the 90% thanks all the same for your input.</P>

twinspark · August 2012

Pedestrians have the right of way at all times - even if they step off a kerb without warning. All vehicles including bicycles must give way, ie not just swear or steer round them or worse blow a whistle and scare the bejeesus out of them.<br><br>Cyclists suffer from encouragement to 'ride agressively' and protect their position on the road and the boxes at traffic lights they occupy 3 or 4 abreast being a case in point. Surely it would be safer for them to wait in line astern on the inside of traffic. <br><br>Most cyclists seem to forget their 'machine' is connected to the road by a section of rubber about the size of a custard cream for each wheel - in other words they have no 'weight to throw about'.<br><br>Something needs to happen to bring about a more responsible road-sharing mindset in cyclists especially as the numbers have increased so much.<br><br>Better spatial awareness and anticipation of other traffic - key part of road craft in cities.<br>Also spot fines for jumping lights, riding on pavements, cycling across zebra crossing,<br>riding without lights, riding with no hands, texting or using the phone etc. <br><br>I enjoy using all types of vehicles but had my fill of cycling in London over 20 years ago.<br>

Peter Crumb · August 2012

I cycle on the roads a bit. If I'm honest though, I don't have a clue what I'm doing. Having grown up in the Yorkshire countryside I'm just not used to big city cycling. Is there a place I can read up or a course I can go on?

yagamuffin · August 2012

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">No-one has "right of way" on the roads, only priority.</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">As for riding aggressively, this is the correct way to ride, there is a difference between riding aggressively, or positively and being a berk.</div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Riding out in the road where you can be seen. Filtering to the front of traffic, in front of cars where you can be seen. This is the correct way to ride. Accidents are caused by people timidly riding in the gutter and not being noticed by other road users in big metal boxes.</font></div>

miss annie · August 2012

<p>@PeterCrumb<;/p><p>There are courses <a href="http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11689.aspx">http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11689.aspx</a></p><p>Whereabouts in Yorkshire? My chap grew up near Malham.</p>

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