Finsbury Park future

vetski · July 2013

Commentary piece on the SPD: <a href="http://www.estatesgazette.com/blogs/jackie-sadek/2013/07/hoping-for-transports-of-delight-at-finsbury-park/">http://www.estatesgazette.com/blogs/jackie-sadek/2013/07/hoping-for-transports-of-delight-at-finsbury-park/</a>. Not sure I'd agree property is undervalued, though!

ADGS · July 2013

People other than oligarchs can occasionally afford to buy here = undervalued.

Thomas · July 2013

@ali - there is actually currently a planning application in for that unit next to Rowans to be occupied by...Roosters. From what i can gather this is a step up from Dixie Chicken, but several steps down from Nandos. It will probably do well there.<div><br></div><div>But i think just finally having an active shopfront there is probably a good thing, whoever the tenant. </div>

vetski · July 2013

This from yesterday's Tottenham Journal: <a href="http://www.tottenhamjournal.co.uk/news/war_declared_on_finsbury_park_s_bookies_and_chicken_shops_as_councils_plan_to_revamp_neglected_town_centre_1_2274329">http://www.tottenhamjournal.co.uk/news/war_declared_on_finsbury_park_s_bookies_and_chicken_shops_as_councils_plan_to_revamp_neglected_town_centre_1_2274329</a>;

ADGS · July 2013

'Ugly, dark and dangerous' is a massive overstatement. As for the bridges - not so long since the last attempt to improve them (those soft, multicoloured lights), is it? The main problem at the moment is all that bloody scaffolding, and the fucked road surface which makes for lots of splashing in wet weather.

vetski · July 2013

I think the article's actually referring to the Seven Sisters bridges rather than the SGR ones - it refers to bus passengers getting crapped on by birds, and there's no bus stop under the SGR bridges! Plus the councillor interviewed is from Islington.

ADGS · July 2013

Ah, yes, fair point!

martmo · July 2013

There is a consultation tonight at the Park Theatre from 5 till 8. Is anyone going? I only found out about this through a leaflet in the door (1 leaflet between more than 6 flats, which means I'm fortunate to even know it's been proposed). I am dubious about this sort of thing, I mean of course certain areas need to be scrubbed up but what's being proposed seems extreme and I feel could be detrimental to the area. <br><br>It is true that being crapped on by pigeons when walking under a bridge is not desirable but that only takes the correct placement of plastic anti pigeon barbs to stop this. The park (public space) requires the council to pull its finger out of its arse by cleaning it and have park wardens keeping some form of order. Remember the trash that was building up in the park after the councils cuts. It took a local resident or even residents to continually send pictures to the local councillor and shame him into doing something. Until this happened the council had shown no concern, not like now when there are big contracts at stake.<br><br>

martmo · July 2013

The idea that the authorities, after years of neglect would get their act together seems odd. Who is involved in this redevelopment? Does it have any connection to the Park Theatre and/or John Jones? If so I am again concerned. The development by John Jones isn't nice on the eye to say the least and worries me when the term shop fronts, housing and development come up. John Jones wanted to contribute to the area and they built a shop space and rented to - Sainsbury's......when there was a Sainsbury at the opposite end of the street (corner of Hanley Rd and Stroud Green Rd). Personally I do not feel that this helps the area. What does shop front development mean?<br><br>

martmo · July 2013

<br>I agree with ADGS ''People other than oligarchs can occasionally afford to buy here = undervalued'' This could very easily push rents up and people out of the area. I have seen over the years communities build up organically, people from various backgrounds living together, restaurants, independent grocery stores, cloths shops, diy shops and coffee shops popping up and given something to the area, not influenced by council incentives or property development initiatives. Property developers and landlords on mass don't care about the local community, their main concern is profit, how much they can get is their main concern despite what it could mean to the local community. As the BBC reported on the 8th June, of the 7000 new build properties sold in London in 2012, 5000 were sold to oversea buyers. Some new builds have to rent a certain % of the flats rented go to council tenants thus<br><br>

martmo · July 2013

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-22825881<br><br>So the risk of having large parts of housing development empty most of the year is very real especially when the owner is living abroad. This scenario alone would do immense damage to the dynamics of the local area. From personal experience and seeing how this works the scenario can run like this:<br>Large development of box apartments in East London - Rented to people who live abroad and only use their apartment when stopping over in London - young professionals who move in for a short period of time and have no interest in staying past one or two years (if that) - council tenants. None of these three tears of the social ladder mix, there is no sense of community and to top it all off the shop space built into the building is a Starbucks. The rent for a two bed apartment/flat in the immediate before the new build went up - between £600 and £900, rents after new build went up - around £1300 for a two bedroom flat.<br><br>As can be seen on the BBC website this morning - ''Rent 'unaffordable'' for low income families in third of uk''<br><br>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23273448<br><br>;

martmo · July 2013

When the benefits cuts were announced a politician was interviewed on radio 4 about rising rents from private landlords and can that could be solved, to which the politician replied ''we have to hope that the landlords lower their rents'' Astonishing.<br><br>I feel there a lot of questions that need to be asked about what it is that they want to do and what assurances we have.<br><br>Just for the record I do not claim any benefits but I live in an area that I love very much and I can see it encroached upon by the few with large cheque books at the expense of the many with little. <br>

andy · July 2013

<i>"<span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;">“Sorting out the bridges is really important and the area under them. They give the wrong message out – that it is a run-down area and the local authority hasn’t cared for it as much as it should. </span><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;">It looks like an area that the authorities have neglected. It’s ugly, dark and it’s dangerous."</span></i><div style="font-style: normal;"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;"><br></span></div><div style="font-style: normal;"><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 18px;">Delicious phrasing here. The problem is the "message". It only "looks like" is has been neglected by the local authority. It hasn't of course. It only looks like it has. It's been fine all along. We just need to spend a million quid on fixing "the message".</span></div>

Arkady · July 2013

@martmo - the Vista House development, containing the new Sainsburys, was not owned or developed by John Jones. It was entirely separate.<br><br>This consultation document is a successor to an earlier from ten years or so back, and has been in the offing for at least a year. There was a preliminary conference on the subject last year (or was it the year before?) in the library on Blackstock Road following the signing of the Finsbury Park Accord between the three boroughs. <br><br>This consultation is not directly to do with John Jones or Park Theatre, rather it recognises that those developments (among others) are now complete or under way. It seems to be making suggestions about what should happen next, rather than what is already happening.<br>

Arkady · July 2013

@andy: To be fair, the bridges and the supporting walls are the responsibility of Network Rail, not the local authority. The boroughs often have a difficuly job pursuading NR to act.<br><br>Hopefully we can have the sort of nice new signs that they ae getting at Cally Road and (at the moment temporarily) on Green Lanes: <br><br>http://www.teamcally.org.uk/2013/05/help-choose-a-simple-new-legend-for-the-cally-road-railway-bridge/<br>http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/woolly_mammoths_and_victorians_on_new_green_lanes_banner_1_1465427<br><br>I'd like the one on SGR to say 'Welcome to Finsbury Park' on one side and 'Welcome to Stroud Green' on the other.<br><br>

twinspark · July 2013

the bridge treatment at bottom of Camden Rd . is the example to follow.<br>

NorthNineteen · July 2013

I'll be there this evening briefly - hopefully I may have something to add as I work in the Planning Department of a nearby Borough.<br>

twinspark · July 2013

I won't make it tonight as work till 8.30<br><br>Re. 'blank canvas for street art' this would be a big mistake. It's an old and somewhat lame idea and usually attracts more graffiti - always looks naff too.<br><br>I'd propose leveling the entire block where Silver Bullet is - nothing of value or interest in that site - Dottori will find another space I'm sure - The bus stops could be move to side of main road and the ridiculous one way system abolished. The open space in front of the station could have something easy on the eye than the present grimness [ not just one massive bike rack though]<br>

Helicon · July 2013

@twinspark<;br><br>I was thinking exactly that, it looks great. Here's a <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/andybroomfield/3077302077/">pic</a> for those that haven't seen them yet.<br>

Mirandola · July 2013

Is there anything about making Seven Sisters two way?

Arkady · July 2013

Nothing about changing the road lay-out, except that they hope to persuade TFL to stop all the buses on Seven Sisters to free up the bus station as a public square.<br><br>I took a photo of the proposals. This includes everything that currently has planning permission, plus the suggested re-worked park entrance in brown.<br><br><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7302/9301612854_a624152a81_h.jpg"><br>

miss annie · July 2013

A public square outside FP station will be a haven for the local alkies. I know some folk love tower blocks but the North of that model just looks like a sink estate to me, and if the finish is anything like as trashy looking as that's already gone up round there, it will be horrid.

ChangN4N6 · July 2013

I Agree. Whatever the layout they need some TASTE when planning these places or it ends up like E Europe in da bad ol days. Get Kevin from Grand Designs in. These places can be interesting. I'd the made the station sq look like Islingtön Green or Crouch end town hall it would be good. Chang

yagamuffin · July 2013

Tower blocks don't have to be bad. Yes, we have a history of poor design in vertical living but there are plenty of examples where it works well.<div>The building alongside the Thames by Vauxhall are lovely, a very different location I know but an example of how it can work.</div>

miss annie · July 2013

I'm just old fashioned I suppose. I think they are ugly, and the neighbourliness you get with living in proper houses or lowrise is just impossible in tower blocks. You may never ever see whole swathes of people that you share a building or street with. I think that's sad. Would anyone choose to live in one?

andy · July 2013

European cities (Paris, Berlin, Vienna etc) are full of 6-8 storey apartment buildings that are models of neighbourliness and good community living.

Marquis · July 2013

<P>I suppose as with all building styles, the living quliaty in brutalist or similar architecture is dependent on the buildling quality and the way properties are run and allowed to deteriorate. If you encourage tenants to be house-proud, I don't think it really matters how many storeys their buildings have. I was in a flat in the Barbican once and really loved the sci-fi aesthetics of it, and yes, I would move in there any time! That's also a development with ample opportunity for neighbourly exchange - or privacy, if preferred. Non-residential, but built in a similar spirit, I think the British Library is a real beauty. I also like the St George's Wharf development in Vauxhall, although it's architecturally probably not quite comparable. On the side of 'proper houses' I can think of loads and loads of rather bleak London districts that are dominated by Victorian properties - think Leyton, or Tottenham etc.</P>

Arkady · July 2013

Some of the most active residents' associations are said to be in tower blocks.<br>

ADGS · July 2013

But is that because they need to be active to deal with the problems endemic to high rises? If so, that's hardly a recommendation.<div><br></div><div>And I can't see that more buses stopping on Seven Sisters Road would help much with traffic flow - especially when it comes to the routes that terminate/start at FP, with driver changeover &c.</div>

marko · July 2013

The idea of moving the buses from the existing bus station on Station Place is merely a very high level suggestion whose practicality has not been considered. They were quite clear that they haven't asked TfL about it yet.<div><br></div><div>It's fairly obvious that the TfL aren't going to be terribly impressed - the stretch of seven Sisters Road fronting the triangle of buildings to the front of the bus station just doesn't have the space along it for several bus-stops and parking for buses at the end of their route - and that's not even considering the loss of road-space to traffic that would result.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

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