Tube strike

miss annie · April 2014

What do ticket office staff do that deserves fantastic pay and why should I pay high transport costs to subsidise it?

checkski · April 2014

Do ticket office staff get 'fantastic' pay? I doubt it. Good luck to them, if they do. High transport costs are a separate issue. If the rich were properly taxed, there would be more funds available generally, for important services like public transport. At the last mayoral election, Ken promised to do something about fares, which is one of the reasons I voted for him. More fool any commuter who didn't, IMHO!

checkski · April 2014

Sorry, Miss Annie, I missed your second to last post.

rainbow_carnage · April 2014

I keep hearing about the fantastic TFL staff, but the ones I've encountered have been largely unhelpful and incompetent. <br><br>A few months ago my Oyster card stopped working. I called customer service, who said that I had reported it stolen (I hadn't) and instructed me to go to the nearest station and get them to sort it out. The man at Russell Square told me that there was nothing he could do, and that I should call customer service again. It took two more calls to sort it out. In the meantime, I had to buy a paper day ticket, then write to them and wait for a refund. None of the people I spoke to acknowledged that the mistake was on their end.<br><br>More recently, my husband was fined £20 and treated like a fare dodger because his account was in the negative by a grand total of 30p. He has an annual travel card, but he went one stop outside of zone 2 on the overground without realising. While he was paying the fine, an actual fare dodger came through without any kind of a ticket. Unlike my husband, he was offered the option of buying a ticket and avoiding the fine.<br><br>To be honest, I've had better service from the machines than from TFL staff.<br>

Stata · April 2014

I find it hard to accept that tube staff are striking for the benefit of the passengers. Holding the city to random so they can get a bonus for working during the Olympics comes to mind, or was that about safety too? Does closing ticket offices mean they will also get rid of the tube staff that stand on every platform during rush hour? I thought the plan was to move people out of the ticket offices and amongst the travelling public? I love the idea of following the tube staffs example, we should all strike until we are at the level of pay, holiday allowance, working hours, size of house etc that we want. Let's think about the poor underpaid, overworked tube staff here, and open a justgiving page for them.

Detritus · April 2014

Sod it I will let the tory out, Boris should horse whip them all into giving in. Why should we have to put up with the travel chaos that this strike will cause? It's wrong and I will happily tell them that in the morning.

Stata · April 2014

Although it's going to be a trek to get to work through these strikes, I've reached a happy equilibrium with my anger at the RMT by knowing London did not bow down to their ransom. Let them strike. How long can RMT's £20 million annual turnover and £18 million stock portfolio last? Probably too long... but with the size of those salaries, you have to hope.

dion · April 2014

<div style="font-size: 10pt; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; font-style: normal;">@Sutent - do you think that unionisation is a good thing for the general public? Should we all join unions and then go on strike? </div><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal; font-style: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">"<i>Tube drivers/staff get fantastic pay and they deserve every penny of it. They are an example of how a profession when they stick together can get the best deal"</i></span></div><div style="font-size: 10pt; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-family: Arial, Verdana; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><i><br></i></span></div><div><font face="lucida grande, Lucida Sans Unicode, tahoma, sans-serif"><font size="2"><span style="line-height: 20px;">As far as I can tell, in the normal non-unionised world, people who have jobs rely on the people who use their services/products to generate income to pay their own wages - maybe some professions (e.g. the medical profession (which has one of the most powerful and understated unions of all time in the UK)? ) just ignore the fact that someone else, normally the general public (or 'other people not in our club') coughs up the cash to pay their wages</span></font></font></div>

Stata · April 2014

This makes me smile. "Disgruntled punter Emma Bradford said: “Apparently reducing ticket office staffing levels in stations would make them less safe. But, while I can understand that in principle, last time I went to the ticket window and asked for a Zone 2 Travelcard, the man looked at me as if I’d just offered to fill his hat with some of my shit. “So on that basis, I’m not entirely sure the same person could be relied upon to help if my hair was on fire.” http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/tube-strike-backfires-as-commuters-steal-train-keys-and-drive-themselves-201011303299

dion · April 2014

Just for a challenge let's think about the corollary being boycotts: Let's all boycott the tube and see how all those LU workers like it then - watch their livelihoods suffer as their income plummets and they have no work to do with no passengers bothering them! Let's all boycott the GP surgeries so the GPs can't earn their nice incomes from referring us to hospital and they can go home and play golf because their waiting rooms are empty! Let's all boycott schools for our children so that teachers can't get work because all the kids are getting home schooled!<div><br></div><div>Am I being unreasonable to dare to suggest that unionisation and striking are anachronisms in modern day society and that those which are most militant are the most exploitative of the potentially ransom holding nature of the professions that they are in?</div>

Stata · April 2014

@dion Can I just add that Sutent is not very clued up about his union, dispute being a raving union supporter. Although he thinks the BMA have negotiated his 'club' an amazing deal where doctors "haven't been hit by public sector pay freezes or pension snatching." The BMA in fact hasn't been so bullish, probably because they cannot grind the city to a halt. But if they can, I'm sure they would give it a try.

dion · April 2014

@Stata - I suppose I was thinking about how GPs have behaved since the inception of the NHS. Admittedly, I wasn't around before WWII to make any judgements regarding before NHS and after NHS. Nonetheless, I am mildly cynical and think that almost any body with a stranglehold over society is going to place its interests above those of society. I wryly smile at the BMA because of the fact that most people, I suggest, join that profession because they want to help people rather than hold them to ransom. Binmen I would be more tolerant of strike action because frankly I would rather be a doctor or even LU worker than a binman.

Stata · April 2014

The GPs negotiated themselves a pretty sweet deal. You would have hoped the idiot government would have served tax payers better, but it's not their money is it? They get paid either way, regardless of the mess they make. Much like bankers.

dion · April 2014

Anyway let's get back to the tube strike @sutent - which tube line do you use to get to work? I use the Piccadilly which is traditionally a very militant line so I am stuffed. My plan is to run in the morning and then run to kings cross on the way home and get the train from there

ChangN4N6 · April 2014

Who runs London eh Boris? Chang

ChangN4N6 · April 2014

Bob Crowe has a lot to answer for Chang

Detritus · April 2014

Bob Crowe did the best for his members, I never liked him and don't like the unions but for what his job was he did it well sadly.

Stata · April 2014

Agree with Detritus, Bob Crowe did his job well. Negotiated generous pay packages for the staff but rubbish value for commuters.

NorthNineteen · April 2014

I'm amazed at all the anti-union chat - especially considering how many of us are in Islington N whose MP is one of the most left-winged pro-union Members of Parliament.<br><br>From what I can gather a lot of this strike action is beacuase the unions realised they gave away a lot of concessions previously which they now regret. The latest news is the RMT want to get rid of voluntary redundancy which I think is crazy! This is all a bit of a pre-lude to strikes aboutb driver-less trains (which incidentally would have guards/customer service assistants abouard much like the DLR who would actually be able to deal with issues quicker and better than a driver can!).<br><br>I'm going to try cycling - found a lovely quiet route from SG into the West End over the Easter weekend which I'm looking forward to trying.<br>

Arkady · April 2014

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">NorthNineteen has partially dealt with this already, but I wanted to tackle two concerns raised by Checkski:</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">"1) safety, in a driverless train. For example, I believe the driver (and there are no guards now, are there?) had a vital role to play in the aftermath of the London bombing - have I got that right? "</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;">The idea to no longer have the driver stuck in the cab, but instead have them free to roam the train and assist people where needed. NOT to have fewer train staff.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">"2) what's the betting there will be no-one there, above ground, to help people with special needs, eg the blind?"</span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The proposals mean that there will be *more* staff on the station floor to assist people, rather than their being trapped behind perspex doing very little.</span></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br></span></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">A splendid article on the past and future (and pros and cons) of automation on the Underground can be found here: http://www.londonreconnections.com/2014/driverless-trains-piccadilly/</font></div>;

Arkady · April 2014

...and a smashing article showing the old and new staff configurations at stations can be found here - well worth a look:<div><br></div><div>http://www.londonreconnections.com/2013/big-changes-gonna-come-part-2-new-approach-ticket-sales/</div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://cdn.londonreconnections.com/2013/gatewaystationexample.jpg"></div>

quince · April 2014

My last experience of using a ticket counter, upon reaching the head of the queue, was having the 'Position Closed' sign slammed up in my face before the member of staff behind the counter turned his back to me and walked off. All I needed was assistance from someone at the barriers - but there was no one there to pay any attention. A peripheral station off-peak? Nope, Holborn in the rush hour.<div><br></div><div>A fine example of the sort of excellent customer service that the RMT are striking to protect. Staff would have been far more useful - and not just to me - on the concourse rather than behind the glass.</div>

ChangN4N6 · April 2014

Terrible. I think when Capita run the customer service side. (As is likely, or someone similar) they will get this side of t right. And get rid if the bad staff. But to be fair the FP ones are quite nice. Chang

graeme · April 2014

I don't think there's an anti-union bias on the thread, @northnineteen. There's an anti-this-strike-by-this-one-union angle. <br><br>http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/04/tube-strike-dear-londoners-this-is-why-we-are-on-strike/<br><br>The RMT do not amply justify their reasons and make it really hard to get behind - they have made assumptions that (as a straw-poll of comments on this thread suggest) do not stand up.<br> <br>e.g.<br><blockquote> <p>London Underground knows very well that passengers do not want these cuts, that staff do not want these cuts, that Londoners do not want these cuts</p> </blockquote> <p>As a passenger and a Londoner and I am not against these refactoring of staff throughout stations. My experience is of less-than-average service at ticket offices, and ever increasing cost of travel (the two may not be related I guess). <br></p><p>Or</p> <blockquote> <p>But where is the room in this brave new world for visitors to London unfamiliar with the system, disabled people, poor people who struggle to keep their card in credit, non-English speakers, people visiting hospitals, elderly people, people who fear assault or harassment while travelling, or anyone else who does not measure up to their ideal customer?</p> </blockquote> <p>How does no ticket office staff help poor people? They still won't sell them a ticket. Non-English speakers? Do ticket office staff speak more languages than multi-language ticket machines? Unlikely. The rest would be better served by staff around the station, rather than behind glass. <br></p><p>It's even hard to accept the RMT's proposals:</p><blockquote><p><span class="null">RMT has proposed that TfL/LU: undertake a major programme of making the Tube accessible to disabled people; <br></span></p></blockquote><p><span class="null">Isn't the tube already accessible to the disabled at key interchange stations, and FP is getting lifts?<br></span></p><blockquote><p><span class="null">ask the government for more money; <br></span></p></blockquote><p><span class="null">Eh...our money?<br></span></p><blockquote><p><span class="null">cap salaries at £100,000; <br></span></p></blockquote><p><span class="null">Why? Is controlling millions in budget, and having a responsible role not worth getting paid for?<br></span></p><blockquote><p><span class="null">bring all contracted-out services in-house; promote its own ticket offices rather than rival outlets; and abandon costly preparations for further cuts, such as driverless trains. </span></p></blockquote><p><span class="null">Can't comment on the first two, but driverless trains seem like a good plan. This isn't the 1970s. We should have jetpacks by now. But driverless trains seem like an achievable automation goal to reduce costs.<br></span></p>Bob Crow did a great job. This new guy isn't amazing...<br><br>

miss annie · April 2014

I'm not supportive of the strike at all, for many of the reasons Graeme mentions. I also think that bringing all services in house is not a great plan. By asking outside contractors to compete against each other on price and service they will be getting a better deal. Also more services in house means more services the union have in their grubby paws, which means more opportunities for them to disrupt the lives and businesses of Londoners. Driverless trains are great, think of it as autopilot. The 'driver' on DLR trains checks the dashboard, pushes the autopilot button and them patrols the train, making themselves available for enquiries, help and ticket checking. Ask them about it next time you use the DLR. This is a good thing.

JoeV · April 2014

Setting aside whether or not the strike is a good/bad idea or justified /unjustified for a moment, if TFL is indeed paying more than 328 people more than £100,000 why doesn't it deserve scrutiny?<div><br></div><div>Like it or not, one of the functions of a union is to preserve jobs for its members. That's what the RMT is doing. Should they give in and say OK the jobs can go putting 950 people out of work without a fight?</div><div><br></div><div>The strike is a public action and the union will take a hit for it. To me though, TFL management is getting off easy because their actions and polices are not given as much of a spotlight.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Ali · April 2014

<P>Usual complaining about how much people get paid on the Underground.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you think it is that good why not apply for a job there seems to be vacancies</P> <P><A href="https://tfl.taleo.net/careersection/external/moresearch.ftl?lang=en">https://tfl.taleo.net/careersection/external/moresearch.ftl?lang=en</A></P>; <P> </P>

NorthNineteen · April 2014

TfL has 28,000 staff (excluding bus driver as they aren't actually employed by TfL) and an annual budget of billions - I'm surprised there's not more than 328 people earning £100,000.<br>

JoeV · April 2014

My point was not that TFL staff is paid too much. It's was that the you don't see significant redundancies of people on higher salaries. It the average-earning workers that are facing the cuts.

NorthNineteen · April 2014

I see! But I can assure you there has been substantial cuts in the upper management at TfL.<br>

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