Pedestrianising Charter Court ('Stroud Green Square')

krappyrubsnif · April 2015

Is anyone interested in actually pursuing this idea properly? That is, paving over the access road outside Vagabond and the other shops and turning it into a pedestrian area with, say, planting, seating, space for a farmers' market? A Stroud Green square hub. <div><br></div><div>Something quite specific has come up on this, I don't want say any more at the moment (@Ali will know what I'm talking about). </div><div><br></div><div>I'm not offering to take anything on myself (not my kind of thing these days) but I'd be interested to know if there is any appetite for this?<div><br></div><div><br></div></div>

nancyccampbell · April 2015

I love this idea! There's a bit of spill out from vagabond anyway and some nice shrubs and that pretty tree - would be nice to make it more of a formal public space without cars. Farmers market would be brilliant too...

krappyrubsnif · April 2015

Just to recap - this idea was floated years ago and got a lot of support then, with architects and Haringey council and civic bodies involved. But somehow it foundered as nobody had the time or energy to make it happen. With the other improvements to the area this might be the time to revive it and as I say, there is a specific reason for posting on this now.

TescoPigeon · April 2015

<blockquote style="margin-right: 0px;" dir="ltr"><p>Fantastic idea! The area has so much potential. Last Sunday myself and my partner were sat outside Vagabond discussing this very topic. How nice it would be! </p></blockquote>

kreuzkav · April 2015

Great idea!<div><br></div><div>As well as farmer's markets there could be Saturday markets where local people sell their books/cds/dvds..No commercial stall-holders allowed. I don't know how it could be controlled, but it would be good.</div>

Arkady · April 2015

This is why we need a formally designated Neighbourhood Forum.<br><br>I'm interested in helping in any way I can.<br><br>Haringey, though, will just say 'there's no money'. We probably need to commission an architect to draw up a proposal and rough costs, and then we can seek funding. I know a couple of architects who are involved in the Conservation Area Advisory Committee who might be willing to help with that.<br><br>If I were to be cynical, I'd say it's unlikely to happen unless a substantial neighbouring property were to be redeveloped so as to release some Section 106 funds. The obvious candidate is TESCO, but then Islington wouldn't allow the cash to be spent on the other side of the borough line.<br>

Mirandola · April 2015

No, the obvious candidate is the car repair yard place across the road.

Arkady · April 2015

Excellent point. That whole corner including Nandos needs a rethink..<div><br></div><div>How about I put together a Doodle poll for a Stroud Green Social, and we take some time during boozing to talk this over?</div>

Sutent · April 2015

What car repair place? You mean the car wash place next to the minicab office on upper Tollington Park. Before my car got stolen I used to use it regularly and it is very busy there, and the guys do a very good job. I would hate too see that place go so that people can the sip their flat whites in a fancy square

trainspotter · April 2015

<font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">You wouldn't need much funding to close the road off and re-pave would you? There is a petition going for something similar by Harringay station and a local councillor seems quite in favour:</span></font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.6000003814697px; line-height: normal;">http://www.stroudgreen.org/discussion/5734/petition-to-pedestrianise-quernmore-road</span></font><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.6000003814697px; line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.6000003814697px; line-height: normal;">Another Councillor told me there is some budget set aside for "pocket parks". Don't know if that's still the case but if it is perhaps it could be accessed for planting - or donations could be sought. Local businesses might chip in.</span></font></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal;"><br></div>

Arkady · April 2015

@Trainspotter - I chatted to the guy from ButFirstCoffee who is behind the Quernmore Road petition. The Council's answer was "great, but there's no money".<div><br></div><div>You might be right about sources of funding though. Worth looking into. And yes, it might be possible to ask for donations from the businesses that front the proposed square.</div>

NorthNineteen · April 2015

This kind of thing needs a "cocktail" of funding. There is a case for using CIL (Community Infrastructure Levy) funding from the Stroud Green ward for this location. s106 money would be a big benefit but you so reliant on development for that. There would be other council funding sources related to parks/environment which may be tapped especially if you can design something that reduce maintenance cost (I suspect paving/street trees/benches would be cheaper than the current planters?). There's then various funding pots from the GLA for improving high streets and from TfL for cycle parking, improved public realm etc.<br><br>I think it's a great idea and would do what I can to support it.<br>

krappyrubsnif · April 2015

Just to add another two penny worth. Last time round I remember speaking to some of the residents of Charter Court in their homes. Well that was an experience. Most were not that bothered either way although a couple said 'Where shall I park my car then?' I don't think that would be a big factor today. The only money available was for a bit of planting and a few thou to hold a 'consultation'. Somebody put up a tent and a bouncy castle and did a questionnaire. The planting money was spent on some new shrubs. And then it kind of fizzled out. I'm sure funding streams somewhere could be tapped, we're only talking about a road closure order, some paving and a bit of street furniture. I know it adds up but all the same. This is absolutely not my area of expertise though.

Papa · April 2015

I'd back it, I think it's a good idea.<div><br><div>(A better idea than the one to replace Finsbury Park bus station with a street drinkers' plaza.)</div><div><br><div>Would need to be maintained and used properly, a farmer's market, places for cafes to have chairs with no council obstruction nonsense going on.</div></div><div><br></div><div>Why not DIY it?</div><div><br></div><div>I reckon round here we have people who could:</div><div><br></div><div>Plan it</div><div>Design it</div><div>Promote it</div><div>And put in some grunt work to help get it built.</div><div>I'd volunteer a day to help</div></div>

trainspotter · April 2015

Even just closing off the road would be a start and wouldn't cost anything really.

mattrobinson · April 2015

This is a great idea! I'd like to help if I can, I live locally. More generally, I have been following stroudgreen.org for months but this is my first post - whoever puts it together/moderates it does a great job <div><br></div><div>Arkady, how do I find out about this doodle poll/boozing session?</div>

meltwaterfalls · April 2015

I really like the idea. They have just done something similar in Muswell Hill (outside the Odeon) it makes the whole space much nicer. I used to live a few doors along on Upper Tollington Park and having a sort of small scale plaza there would be really welcoming. I guess there will be a loss of a few parking spaces, which are in pretty high demand, still I would really welcome that as an improvement to the area.

Mirandola · April 2015

Sutent -<div><br></div><div>I wasn't saying it should go. Just that car washes and minicab offices are the kind of businesses you usually find where land values are relatively low. That corner, increasingly, is on the pricey end and I'd expect that at some point either their landlord will want to raise the rents or they will want to sell up. Again, am not hoping for this. </div>

Arkady · April 2015

@mattrobinson - I'll sort something this week.

Eliz · April 2015

I think it would be a great idea but I imagine there would be a lot of opposition from the mincab drivers who use that road for parking while they're waiting for customers. <br>

krappyrubsnif · April 2015

Good point @Eliz

Arkady · April 2015

I believe that they do so without paying a contribution to the council, and that reidents and shopkeepers have complained about it, so it might not be as big as problem as you fear.

Papa · April 2015

Is the parking there residents parking? <div>Islington play a trick where they business permit holders under the same IS-J label, catches a lot of people out who look at the sign, see IS-J and think that's OK I can park.</div><div>A lot of Islington's side of Stroud Green Road, some of Tollington Park and some of the roads down toward the station are like that.</div><div><br></div><div>Not sure whether Haringey do the same thing.</div><div><br></div><div>Losing parking, especially for people visiting local shops is an issue, but in this case I think the benefits would outweigh the loss of the spaces.</div><div><br></div><div>That car wash is the best around. There is a garage behind it, not sure if that is any good.</div><div><br></div><div>As for what goes down in the rest of that funny alleyway, hmmm.</div>

NorthNineteen · April 2015

There are various reports that show how shopkeepers routinely over-estimate the number of visitors who use cars to visit shops and also how much they spend, on average pedestrians and cyclists spend more per visit on London's high street than car users.<br>

Donna · April 2015

I'd support it.

Fin · April 2015

<p>Gets my support and I'd be happy to help if I can.</p><p>We need a ballpark total cost figure. Not my area of expertise at all, anyone else?</p><p>Once we've got that, and depending on the amount, how about crowd funding?</p>

maclondon · April 2015

it would not be much - depends on whether a more fundamental improvement is done to the junction. what i think is required is a survey of residents,shoppers and others. count me in for help!

krappyrubsnif · April 2015

In my view it ought to be achievable by keeping it as simple as possible first off, just closing and paving. The fancy street furnishings, low level lighting, shrubs, sculptures, Clock Tower, water feature, ice rink and animated artworks can come later. (I exaggerate, yes.) Actually I think the biggest design problem on the get-go might be the slight changes of level. Take a look. It's not quite flat. Just needs thinking out.

RajSahota · April 2015

Just to let you all know that this is an idea that I and your local Labour councillors have been discussing with the owners of some of the local businesses and councils officers for some time. <br><br>Funding will be an issue given council budget constraints.<br> <br>If it does prove to be feasible it may be something we can try and link with the regeneration work in Finsbury Park. We'll be posting more after the election. <br>

Fin · April 2015

<p>Does anyone have the skill set, and of course time, to put together a formal proposal and costings? That has to be the next step in order to have a chance of getting this done!</p><p>Would the council accept/approve a private funded initiative?</p>

Thomas · April 2015

<font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">GLA might be an option - their current High Street Fund programme is </span><span style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px; line-height: normal;">targeting</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;"> projects like this. The current pot of </span><span style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px; line-height: normal;">funding </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal;">(£300k) is focused on community groups seeking up to £20 in funding. To be considered though, the project would need to show it is feasible (which I guess in this case would include showing it has support of the council and other landowners if applicable...) and that there is a formal organisation / structure which can be responsible for delivering the project. Both may be difficult!</span></font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px; line-height: normal;"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana"><span style="font-size: 13.3333330154419px; line-height: normal;">More information here:</span></font><div><p style="line-height: 20.3999996185303px; margin: 0px 0px 14px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; border-image-source: initial; border-image-slice: initial; border-image-width: initial; border-image-outset: initial; border-image-repeat: initial; font-stretch: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font color="#666666" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="line-height: 18px;">https://www.london.gov.uk/priorities/regeneration/high-streets/funding-programmes/high-street-fund#High Street Fund Prospectus</span></font></p><p style="line-height: 20.3999996185303px; margin: 0px 0px 14px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; border-image-source: initial; border-image-slice: initial; border-image-width: initial; border-image-outset: initial; border-image-repeat: initial; font-stretch: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-style: italic;"><u style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; line-height: inherit; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-stretch: inherit; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; border-image-source: initial; border-image-slice: initial; border-image-width: initial; border-image-outset: initial; border-image-repeat: initial; font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; line-height: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">Mayor's Spacehive Applications</strong></u><br></span></p><div><div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: 18px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; border-image-source: initial; border-image-slice: initial; border-image-width: initial; border-image-outset: initial; border-image-repeat: initial; font-stretch: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-style: italic;">Applications to the Mayor's Spacehive page are open to a range of organisations including town teams, business improvement districts and community groups.</span></div><p style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: 18px; margin: 0px 0px 14px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; border-image-source: initial; border-image-slice: initial; border-image-width: initial; border-image-outset: initial; border-image-repeat: initial; font-stretch: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-style: italic;">All you need to start the process is a good idea, a project description and an image.</span></p><p style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: 18px; margin: 0px 0px 14px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; border-image-source: initial; border-image-slice: initial; border-image-width: initial; border-image-outset: initial; border-image-repeat: initial; font-stretch: inherit; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-style: italic;">The website can also be used as a platform to crowdfund your project, regardless of whether or not you receive Mayoral funding. This means your project can be up to any value, with the Mayor contributing a maximum of £20,000.</span></p></div></div></div>

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Pedestrianising Charter Court ('Stroud Green Square')

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