From the outside, the ex-cinema looked in really bad condition and had been that way for years. I expect that's why a proposal to replace it with a new building didn't generate protests (certainly when I heard it was going to be knocked down I thought that was good news).
It looks like the appendices are missing, the detailed plans and elevations are absent. Unless this an outline proposal? I wonder whether the inclusion of new streetscape plans in the Transport Assessment is meant to imply that these will be funded by the development, I can't see any explicit mention of that.
On the whole I think this looks very impressive. I'd like to see detailed renders of the facades though.
It's a full app rather than outline, but certainly lacks all the plans. The streetscape improvements may be part of the legal agreement, in which case they will follow on. It may be that any redevelopment of the site, given that it's a designated action area, will need to deliver the streetscape improvements.
I'll chase the detailed plans. In the meantime there's a good one of the ground floor on P28 of the Transport document (W17) and low-res versions of the other floors starting on page 16 of the noise assessment (W14), of all places.
Hope you're right about the streetscape, it certainly needs doing.
Arky
Thanks for the tip off about the plans being up Arky.
The archaeological documents in there are worth a look as they include old street maps showing what the area used to be like. There were an awful lot of fields in 1862...
If I recall correctly the historical maps are even more extensive in the City North application.
They still haven't put the actual plans up, I shall chase again tomorrow in a more threatening tone.
Incidentally, I have a brief meeting with the CEO of Argent - the company responsible for the Kings Cross redevelopment - on Monday. If anyone has any questions they would like me to ask I'd be happy to. There's a slight SG connection, as the planned student accommodation on the John Jones site is aimed at catering for students at the University of the Arts which will shortly be moving to the KX development.
Arky
"As yet I have not been provided with an update on when the
plans may be viewed online, but I am hopeful that this will be before
mid-next week at the latest."
I now have these plans, so if anyone is desperate to see them before they go online drop me a whisper with your email address. It's a 4mg file, mind.
Arky
For anyone who hasn't accessed our planning application, there are a couple of new images on our website http://www.johnjones.co.uk/john-jones-news/john-jones-development.aspx
Re the building next to us that has stalled - did it really used to be a cinema? When we moved in it was a bit of a sweatshop as far as we remember - something to do with fashion garments.
On a separate note, I heard recently that the old Sense building on Clifton Terrace is being turned into a 350 seater theatre...
Kate, I’ve studied your application in a genuinely geeky amount of detail, and I think it’s a brilliant proposal. I’ve formally commented on it to that effect to Islington Council. I took the liberty of mentioning it the internet’s premier development-nerd-central, where it has also drawn a supportive comment: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1030381&highlight=finsbury+park
It’s a shame that Godfrey’s don’t want to get involved. What’s their take on it?
There’s some history of the cinema on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Stroud_Green,_London
Hi Kate,
I think the development looks really good but the yellow car wash will look a bigger eye sore now.
As a long standing customer of Godfrey’s I have picked up my Christmas meat’s from Finsbury park for years now. And I also find it very useful throughout the year because parking restrictions in Highbury Barn. I hope Godfrey stays on the site. I wonder to what the Godfrey’s take on it is .
I also wonder if Godfrey’s would consider opening a shop on the corner for retail, I’m sure it would be a great success and good for the area too. This is a butchers shop that was voted by the public as London’s best local shop.
@Trish – the Wells terrace block housing the carwash is also part of the wider FP development plan. Hopefully the two neighbouring developments will provide the spur to have the current site raised and replaced with something fitting. It’s a shame that Godfrey’s isn’t joining the John Jones plan. A new building on the same scale of the rest of the development could allow them ground floor retail, the ‘factory’ on the floor above (with more space than they have currently) and the development could be paid for with three stories of accommodation above. Hard to understand why they aren’t getting involved.
Arky
Hi, I am Siobhan Godfrey a part of the Godfrey family who currently own the freehold at Morris Place.
A bit of our background might be helpful. We are 4th generation butcher family, with the 5th generation starting work next year. We have had premises in Highbury barn since 1905, and had other shops in the borough over the past century.
We moved into Morris Place 15 years ago, and were over the moon with a modern purpose built catering unit within half a mile of our shop, and less than 10 minutes into the City and West End.
We bought the freehold to our site the same time as John Jones Ltd did.
We have been approaching on a very casual basis a few times by John Jones with a view to buying our premises, but we didn't want to sell as we feel our whole family ethos is based on work and great service, not sitting back in Marbella with a cocktail!.
More recently we were asked by Spiritbond if there were any circumstances in which we would vacate our premises, and we agreed on the basis that they found us similar premises within easy reach of our customer base. We even employed our own agent with a view to finding this property. The only option given to us was a move to Hornsey, more than half and hour away. This would have meant making some of our team redundant. Many of our staff currently use the night bus to come to work, but that does not go out as far as Hornsey. So we declined.
Since that time, apart from the invitation to view the plans at John Jones they seem not to want to deal with us anymore. And have decided to build around us.
We have always had a good relationship with John Jones, and were in favour of the redevelopment, especially if it meant we could perhaps have a shop front and the catering unit above. So perhaps if they are out there reading this - Come over and talk to us!
sorry, small comment to Arkady - whilst we are a specialist, award winning sausage makers, we cover the full spectrum of catering meat services. We provide Scotch Beef and traditional free range pork to some of Londons top hotels and restuaurants, we also have been working closely with a company that provides food to all the super yachts across the world.
Thanks so much for that Siobhan. Sounds like you staying *and* being able to be involved in the redevelopment would be the best for everyone, especially if you and residents can benefit from your excellent butchers having a retail frontage there! Really hope that works out. If not, maybe you can think about planning your own redevelopment? As noted earlier, you can probably fund it through selling off residential floors above…
A
Incidentally, I know your butchers in Highbury well. Many a hungover weekend morning has been saved by the quality of your astonishingly high-quality grillable meaty produce. The thought of you having a retail outlet closer to where I now live in northern Stroud Green actually brings tears to my eyes. Please resolve any issues with your neighbours and make this happen. Give the word and I’ll come down and start digging the foundations myself.
A
Siobhan - can we buy direct from Morris Place? I didn't know you were there but Trish seems to suggest that she gets meat from you at that place. If you do I have a freezer I could fill with all manner of animals ...
I'm with Arkady on this one. It would be a joy to have a Godfrey's retail outlet in Finsbury Park. The one in Highbury looks great but it's just too far to walk on a regular basis.
Arkady’s idea sounds good to me, a few storeys of great modern facilities for your business Siobhan, a fantastic retail outlet for the locals, and all paid for by the extra student accommodation provided above. Part of the deal with Jones/Spiritbound could be for temporary relocation and a disruption allowance to cover added travel costs etc.
I may have been a bit disparaging about the design but I do like the in-built potential for extending the student blocks across over Godfrey’s in future should a mutually benefitial opportunity arise.
I was also somewhat appeased by the ambition to achieve BREEAM ‘Excellent’ which should hopefully mean a fairly sustainable building (whatever 'sustainable' means!). Still think the design is a bit bland overall. How about something a bit more exciting like the new City North?!
I was wondering about that. But the landowner, the construction firm and the owner of the crane are likely to be three different people. we know the construction firm went bust, and we know the landowner was trying to sell. The removal of the crane might simply mean that the hire firm has reclaimed it.
Arky
@Richard While this development does classify in the 'Excellent' BREEAM band, it does so by a few 1/10ths of a percent.
>> How about something a bit more exciting like the new City North?!
With regards to BREEAM, the City North development doesn't reach the 70% mark (threshold for "Excellent") even from the outset. Interesting, because Islington Councils mandatory minimum is also "Excellent".
Siobhan - I'd love to meet with you about this! Are you there Weds/ Thurs next week? We have various people helping us with the development so it would seem communication has somehow been lost or diluted between JJ and Godfreys - lets meet!
Comments
"....the drawing should be available to view tomorrow [wednesday 16th feb 2010] evening."
Arky
On the whole I think this looks very impressive. I'd like to see detailed renders of the facades though.
Arky
Hope you're right about the streetscape, it certainly needs doing.
Arky
The archaeological documents in there are worth a look as they include old street maps showing what the area used to be like. There were an awful lot of fields in 1862...
They still haven't put the actual plans up, I shall chase again tomorrow in a more threatening tone.
Incidentally, I have a brief meeting with the CEO of Argent - the company responsible for the Kings Cross redevelopment - on Monday. If anyone has any questions they would like me to ask I'd be happy to. There's a slight SG connection, as the planned student accommodation on the John Jones site is aimed at catering for students at the University of the Arts which will shortly be moving to the KX development.
Arky
plans may be viewed online, but I am hopeful that this will be before
mid-next week at the latest."
Arky
Re the building next to us that has stalled - did it really used to be a cinema? When we moved in it was a bit of a sweatshop as far as we remember - something to do with fashion garments.
On a separate note, I heard recently that the old Sense building on Clifton Terrace is being turned into a 350 seater theatre...
It’s a shame that Godfrey’s don’t want to get involved. What’s their take on it?
There’s some history of the cinema on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Stroud_Green,_London
Best of luck, Arky
A
I think the development looks really good but the yellow car wash will look a bigger eye sore now.
As a long standing customer of Godfrey’s I have picked up my Christmas meat’s from Finsbury park for years now. And I also find it very useful throughout the year because parking restrictions in Highbury Barn. I hope Godfrey stays on the site. I wonder to what the Godfrey’s take on it is .
I also wonder if Godfrey’s would consider opening a shop on the corner for retail, I’m sure it would be a great success and good for the area too. This is a butchers shop that was voted by the public as London’s best local shop.
A bit of our background might be helpful. We are 4th generation butcher family, with the 5th generation starting work next year. We have had premises in Highbury barn since 1905, and had other shops in the borough over the past century.
We moved into Morris Place 15 years ago, and were over the moon with a modern purpose built catering unit within half a mile of our shop, and less than 10 minutes into the City and West End.
We bought the freehold to our site the same time as John Jones Ltd did.
We have been approaching on a very casual basis a few times by John Jones with a view to buying our premises, but we didn't want to sell as we feel our whole family ethos is based on work and great service, not sitting back in Marbella with a cocktail!.
More recently we were asked by Spiritbond if there were any circumstances in which we would vacate our premises, and we agreed on the basis that they found us similar premises within easy reach of our customer base. We even employed our own agent with a view to finding this property. The only option given to us was a move to Hornsey, more than half and hour away. This would have meant making some of our team redundant. Many of our staff currently use the night bus to come to work, but that does not go out as far as Hornsey. So we declined.
Since that time, apart from the invitation to view the plans at John Jones they seem not to want to deal with us anymore. And have decided to build around us.
We have always had a good relationship with John Jones, and were in favour of the redevelopment, especially if it meant we could perhaps have a shop front and the catering unit above. So perhaps if they are out there reading this - Come over and talk to us!
I may have been a bit disparaging about the design but I do like the in-built potential for extending the student blocks across over Godfrey’s in future should a mutually benefitial opportunity arise.
I was also somewhat appeased by the ambition to achieve BREEAM ‘Excellent’ which should hopefully mean a fairly sustainable building (whatever 'sustainable' means!). Still think the design is a bit bland overall. How about something a bit more exciting like the new City North?!
>> How about something a bit more exciting like the new City North?!
With regards to BREEAM, the City North development doesn't reach the 70% mark (threshold for "Excellent") even from the outset. Interesting, because Islington Councils mandatory minimum is also "Excellent".