Development of John Jones Site / Sketch House

Arkady

Probably several years too early to say. All I know is that it's owned by City North (who are building the towers on top of Finsbury Park station) who are minded to redevelop it once that project is underway. The sooner the better. I'd argue for retail/cafes/bars with offices. above. Ideally with some form of arcade running through the centre of the site, linking the bus station to Morris Place. Or perhaps better than an arcade: not developing the corner where the car wash and food shacks sit, and instead having a small new 'square', opening up the pedestrian desire-line there.

Roy

Thanks. Any idea what the timescales are for all these projects? So what is there confirmed around the Station then? - Vista, John Jones, City North - is that the lot, or have I missed any? _ETAGDN_ oh, and not quite on the same scale, but I suppose I should include Park Theatre. (Is that actually a mixed use development too, and not just a theatre?)

Arkady

The theatre is mixed use, yes. Apartments above. Timescales vary - City North due to start 2012-13, that will take a couple of years. I'd guess similar for John Jones, which is in two phases due to commence June-July. They hope to open the theatre next year I think. There's an interesting modernist mixed use development opposite the old Astoria theatre on the corner of Isledon/Seven Sisters that has planning (next to the derelict pub), and a decent-looking hotel next door to it on Isledon. I think someone said the former was underway, but oddly I haven't been around that corner for months. Worth having a look at the applications, they both have some good renders and illustrative views. At the other end of Stroud Green, they're squeezing a new development in beside the GOBLIN on Mount Pleasant Villas. Other than that, Network Rail have indicated their willingness to develop the yard opposite Vista, but that was some years ago and no proposals have come forward. I doubt they'd get permission for anything tall, given proximity to the park and the ruinous effect it would have on the views from Vista/John Jones. Several of the buildings next to the future theatre on Clifton Terrace are rumoured to be owned by a fellah who is considering his options - I believe he offered the theatre expansion room too late for them to consider it. Not many other prime sites that I can think of. The biggie will be when they eventually tackle Six Acres and the other disasterous estates west of Fonthill. That will be a happy day. They should do what they've done to the legendary concrete shithole that was the Kidbrooke Estate: <http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=670786&page=10>;

Roy

Thanks. Will be interesting to watch this all take shape over the coming years. As an aside, I was looking at the plans of the various developments - why is it that everyone is building open plan flats these days? Does no one want a separate kitchen any more? I realise it might take up slightly more space but I would have thought it would be a selling point...

Arkady

It works for me. Good for parties.

ActionVerb

Having walked along Lennox Rd and Clifton Terrace this morning, it's a bit disappointing that all of the trees along that stretch will be removed to facilitate the development, if I'm reading the plans right. I haven't had a chance to look at any of the appeal documents apart from the decision, but it appears the Council's three main issues were loss of trees, scale along Clifton Terrace and Lennox Rd and emerging policy on student accommodation. I'm not sure on what point they'd progress a JR (if they are at all - very unusual for a Council to JR an Inspector's decision), presumably on the student policy grounds as it deals with the process in how the decision was arrived at.

Roy

@arkady: do you not find it rather noisy to have your washing machine in your living room?

Arkady

In my current flat the kitchen is connected to the living room by big double-doors which are usually left open but can be closed where necessary. Regardless, I’m one of those who puts their washing on before they go to work and deals with it upon returning home.

Roy

I'm way too paranoid to run a washing machine unattended. This may be way out of date, but the Consumers' Association association used to state that washing machines were a leading cause of house fires, and recommended not to run a washing machine unattended, and also recommended not go to sleep with the washing machine runing unless the house is fitted with a smoke alarm. An open plan area with doors that can be closed sounds good, though.

Arkady

Drinking’s a major cause of death too. But life’s already to short to worry about stuff like that.

miss annie

Poppycock! The Consumers' Association sound like a bunch of paranoid control freaks. These the kind of people that organise full day workshops in how to use a ladder. I'd be more worried about flooding with washing machines than house fires. I've been known to leave the oven on while I pop to the shops and what about central heating systems? There is a big metal cupboard full of fire in most people's houses. This presumably runs when people are at work.

WillM

If a washing machine's gonna start catching fire, the least it could do is flood as well so to put the fire out.

Marquis

On the other hand, watching a washing machine spin can be a strangely pleasant, hypnotic experience. Not that I have done it very often.

Roy

@miss annie: I tend to think central heating boilers are designed to run unattended, and have lots of safety mechanisms for that reason. It's less clear to me that that applies to the same extent to washing machines, although maybe these days it does, too.

sincers

Are you suggesting washing machines have glass doors because you're supposed to watch them when they're on?

miss annie

The washing is quite trance inducing. I really like watching cakes rising through the oven door, it's like magic.

therattle

@Arkady, thanks for that terrific link and post.

@missannie: "a big metal cupboard full of fire " - fantastic!

I'm all for the development. The area immediately around the station is a shithole.

Arkady

@therattle: Thanks for that. It took quite a bit of work but I do like to geek out about this sort of thing. @everyoneelse – I’m not one for watching washing machines, but watching bacon grill is fascinating – and with a good payoff at the end.

Papa

@Arkady Great link and insight into what is going on down by the station.

I don't use it that much so don't walk that way too often but am actually quite impressed by what the council has done on Clifton Terrace - still I guess improving the JJ site is the greater good.

Open plan kitchen/living space saves developers money- but only works when that space is big enough - too many conversions and new builds go just too small and it ends up hampering places rather than enhancing them.

Albeit it does dramatically improve the chance of being able to sit comfortable on your sofa and watch your washing machine catch fire

[Deleted User]

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therattle

@Misscara: now that's what I call hot underwear, folks!

(Sorry, sorry, couldn't resist)

David Barry

Once more stroudgreen.org fearlessly follows the argument where ever it goes; and provides some helpful domestic safety tips on the way.

Arkady

As noted more angrily elsewhere, the cash-strapped Islington Council are throwing some more money at this by applying for a judicial review. If anyone has any media contacts or political pull around here (looks pleadingly at Mark Pack) then maybe they could deploy them...

Kate Jones

Sorry meant @reg (auto spell in overdrive!)

Incidentally it seems islington filed the papers to another company John Jones instead of us...

markpack

Two questions:

a. What are the grounds on which the judicial review is being pursued?

b. How close to the likely actual final look of the buildings are the sketches in the application? (Are they still general indications or specific plans?)

It's the Lennox Road / Stroud Green Road corner in particular I'm wondering about as though there's much about the rest I like, that corner looks like it could come up rather like some of the worst of the '90s style red brick and glass bland redevelopments around the place.

Kate Jones

The main focus of their appeal is ref the Student Housing. Islington feel that the Inspectorate's decision contradicts their Core Strategy to limit student housing in the borough. They say that at the time they turned down our original planning this Core Strategy was still new but is now in place and was treated by the inspector as having limited weight.

So the Grounds of Challenge from Islington are:
1. Misunderstanding of the development plan policies in respect of student housing
2. Unlawful conclusion that a scheme would be unviable with conventional housing

I don't really know why they are being so heavy handed about it, but it does seem that they are doing everything they can to stamp down on what we're trying to achieve. They seem to be trying to force us to develop the site as affordable housing (in fact one of their councillors has mentioned a couple of times that they'd like to introduce us to Family Mosaic and has questioned what type of contract we have in place with our current developer Spiritbond...), but none of the conventional housing developers we have spoken to have been able to come up with a scheme that keeps us on site.

Islington are sending a clear message that they favour the site's development as affordable housing over keeping John Jones in the borough. They seem to want us to sell and go.... which we don't want to do!

Mark - the Lennox Rd/ Stroud Green corner is where the affordable housing units would be, its in grey brick. I'll raise your comment with the architects now.

Mirandola

Any news?

Arkady

Last I heard the judicial review was going to be in September/October (<http://www.johnjones.co.uk/art-projects/arts-building/latest-news>

Arkady

Likely delayed until February. Apparently the courts are busy processing all the thieving douchebags caught duing riot season.

Arkady

They are now being told May 2012.