Primary School nightmare

janez

<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#282828;background:white; mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Andy, no one prevents you from living in the world where serious unis prefer killer combination of Accountancy, Drama and General Studies to hard subjects like English, History and Maths. </span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; "> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#282828;background:white; mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">The thing which you may not know about is that students get</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#282828;mso-fareast-language: EN-GB"> </span><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#282828;background:white; mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">higher</span></i><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#282828;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> </span></i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman";color:#282828;background:white;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">grades at</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family: "Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#282828; mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"> </span><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#282828;background:white;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">hard</span></i><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#282828;mso-fareast-language: EN-GB"> </span></i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#282828;background:white; mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">subjects. "</span><span style="font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#333333;background:white;mso-fareast-language:EN-GB"><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/mar/07/a-levels-star-exam-grades"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;color:blue">Just over half of all A grades awarded to pupils who took A-levels in Russian or further maths last summer would be given an A* this year. ...  </span></a><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/mar/07/a-levels-star-exam-grades"><span style="mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;color:blue">But only 9% of A grades in computing and 13% in media studies would have qualified for an A*</span></a>." If you a choosing Further Maths or Foreign Language, you should be really well prepared to them.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#333333;background:white; mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">That is why I think that relative success of Highbury Fields is partially explained by their specialism, and IAMS is burdened by its specialism just on the top of the other difficulties.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:#333333;background:white; mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">On the dismissing evidence, sorry, I have not seen you presenting anything but attitudes, which, basically, do not need arguing. </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>

mr bergkamp

<p>Long thread. Have read bits of it.</p><p>Re St Joans to get in the parents need to be practising Catholics.</p>

janez

And that will be <a href="">tested</a>, mua-ha-ha.

rainbow_carnage

It's pretty clear that different people have different ideas about what constitutes a good school.<br><br>I went to a state school in Upstate NY. It offered a huge range of courses including over a dozen AP classes (1st year uni level). I took 10 including physics, biology, calculus and statistics. And I was an arty student.<br><br>Every term, we had a choice of eight or 10 after-school sports. Everyone I know played at least one. I ran cross country in the fall, played basketball in the winter and was on the track team in the spring. This was pretty typical. Out of a class of 250, I could count on one hand the number of obese students. I know of two who had problems with eating disorders.<br><br>In addition to the sports, we had a wide range of extra-curricular activities including an award-winning newspaper, a daily TV show, a literary journal, a science olympiad team, an orchestra, a jazz band, a choir, a theatre group, a maths team, a chess club, a yearbook, Model UN, etc. I was in school every day until 5 or 6pm, by choice.<br><br>Most of my teachers had master's degrees. A few had PhDs. They were teachers because they loved teaching, not because their acting careers didn't work out.<br><br>My class was ethnically and culturally (if not economically) diverse. The school had a great SEN programme and attracted lots of kids with learning disabilities, who had help from specialist teachers. In the four years that I spent there, I don't recall seeing a single act of violence or serious bullying. Two of my friends were openly gay, and no one ever harassed them for it.<br><br>Everyone I know went to university after graduation. Most of my friends went either to an Ivy League school or to one of the small liberal arts colleges.<br><br>This is what a good state school is like. Do any of the schools people have been praising come even close to this?<br><br>I would never send my children to one of the academies, where the majority of the students can't read. Where kids regularly hit and bully one another, shove teachers and throw things across the room. Where students make casual homophobic remarks, and the teachers don't bat an eye. Where, come 3pm, the kids have nothing to do but roam the streets.<br><br>I don't care what percent of the students get an A-C. A good school doesn't consider a C an acceptable grade.<br>

miss annie

Your school sounds wonderful, I would love to have gone there. Most Americans that I know had good experiences at school, although admittedly none are from middle or low income families - only people from well off American families seem to end up here. Where do you send your children now?

janez

Well off people are more mobile in all countries. <div><br></div><div>Majority of those 50% of non-English population of Islington, who "got on their bicycles" and selfishly (according to local class warriors) abandoned their struggling communities around the globe, are, in fact, middle class. They had money and spare time to learn English at least to basic level. </div>

miss annie

<p>The teaching of English in schools around the world is commonplace in many countries. We are extremely slack about it here.They teach English from the age of 8 in French schools. </p><p>My nephew goes to a high scoring and very nice school in the countryside and has just started German lessons at the age of twelve. I don't think that German is a massively useful language (I could well be very wrong) and twelve seems very late to start learning languages. </p>

boxrunner

@rainbow_carnage, your school does sound great, I suspect we all would probably have liked to have gone there (and would be in favour of sending our own kids there).<br><br>In response to your point about where you wouldn't send your kids, I think most people (certainly the fellow parents I know, I can't speak for other so in this forum whom I don't know) want their kids to be in constructive, nurturing and healthy environments, rather than imposing and negative environments.  I guess the point is whether - as a parent and adult - you leave your community in order to find that for your child (assuming you're lucky enough to be in the position to do so) or do you try and create some of that in your community where you already are (and perhaps improve the situation not just for your own child but for other children and families also).<br><br>It is, I believe, a philosophical issue, despite some of the postings on this thread, and one that touches on how we relate to our local community and our perceived involvement as part of that community.<br><br>As an aside, I have a number of adult friends who went to very nice independent private schools which had some of the facilities you described at your school.  I've heard from them a lot of stories around bullying, homophobia, drugs and sex, so I don't think these are the exclusive privilege of inner city schools.<br>

janez

Why did they choose German then? The country school had limited options? When we were choosing FL between French and German we have chosen French just because we already had English from Germanic languages.<div><br></div><div>Anyway, FLs are quite money-consuming subjects, especially in non-Commonwealth countries, where schools teaching <b>in</b> English are mostly non-existent or just private. </div>

rainbow_carnage

Class is a difficult issues, especially in the States. Of course, huge divisions exist, but it's not easy to pigeonhole people.<br><br>My family immigrated to the States in 1989. We had no money and didn't speak English. My parents worked hard and saved so that by the time I was 13, we moved from the city to a middle class suburb with a good school. It wasn't the wealthiest in the area, but it was one where parents valued education above all else. State education is largely funded locally. Every year, the towns have a referendum to decide whether or not to raise the tax that goes to pay for schools. Every year, the residents in our area voted yes. So while neighbouring schools from wealthier towns complained about music education cuts, my classmates and I had the best education... I was going to say money could buy, but that's not strictly true. The inner city schools actually spend much more per pupil that my school (subsidised by state and federal governments), with disastrous results. Money isn't everything.<br><br>I love the idea of being part of a community that values education more than large houses and shiny cars. I'm also very keen to stay in this area. But I don't see how I could contribute to the local schools. Certainly not in a meaningful way that would bring them closer to the sort of school I went to. This is why people start free schools. It's easier to start something new than to fix something that's been broken for decades.<br><br>I wish I had an answer to this. I don't want to move to the suburbs. I don't want to go private (even if I could afford it, which I can't). I certainly don't want to home school. And there's no way that I'd send my kids to any of the schools I've taught at. What else is there?<br>

Mirandola

@rainbow-carnage,<div><br></div><div>Have you thought of becoming a school governor? Would have thought that your experience would make you an very good one. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

janez

@Mirandola: r-c just said that they would never send kids to a school where children can not read properly. IAMS with its "normal, healthy, average" Ds fits that definition quite closely.<div><br></div><div>Although, I am surprised that our moral crusaders do not attack r-c's parents for moving closer to a good school and choosing a community with values and lifestyle, similar to their own. </div>

Mirandola

@Janez,<div><br></div><div>There are community, LA, staff, and sometimes foundation governors as well as parent governors. So you don't have to have kids at a school to be a governor there.  I'm surprised you didn't know that.</div>

janez

<span style="font-style: normal; ">I would </span><i>love</i> to see someone, becoming a governor of a local "average D" school, while sending kids to a better one. 

janez

Btw, talking about free schools, are there any in the vicinity? I've just heard that one is about to be set up in Dalston. Anything else?

ChangN4N6

The old piano factory in Leeds Place is up for it now the ppl who ran it as social centre went bust. Good opportunity but right next door to IAMS so I am guessing former pupils from middle class pods willbe given a hard time. But worth a go. I say this as a single bloke, no kids. Tho is is opposite the Lookalike Factory !! Chang

rainbow_carnage

I have a huge amount of respect for people who give up their free time to become school governors, but I don't think they could change a school in any dramatic way.<br><br>The main reason my school was successful was the parents. I'm not talking about soccer moms who join the PTA. My mom never did that, nor did most of my friends' parents. What they did was teach us to read at the age of four. They took us to the library every weekend. They took us to the theatre and to museums.<br><br>Last weekend I went to the N4 library on Blackstock Road to return a couple of books. The children's section was deserted. How can you expect your kids to take an interest in learning when you can't even be bothered to take them to the library?<br><br>I used to mentor a 14-year-old boy from New Cross. He had lived his whole life in London but had never been to any of the museums. He wanted to be an actor, but had never been to the theatre. His parents were lovely people with a nice house and middle-class jobs. I have no doubt they love their kids. They just don't think that taking them to museums is important.<br><br>It's not about money. It's about values. The parents from neighbouring schools took their kids to Disney World over the summer break. Mine took me to Europe. My friend's father took his kids to Peru, where he was volunteering as a doctor. I don't imagine that two weeks in Europe or Peru are any more expensive than Disney World or a cruise, but you sure as hell learn more.<br><br>Growing up, I regularly complained about living in the suburbs. I would never want to inflict that lifestyle on myself or my kids. But I'm grateful to my parents for sending me to a good school. It really did open up my world.<br>

boxrunner

We're looking at primary schools now for our son to start in September 2013.  The main ones we're looking at are Pooles Park, Ashmount, Stroud Green and Duncombe.<br><br>If anyone has children there (or anywhere else in the area that we should definitely look at or avoid) can you please post an update?  It would be great to get a current perspective.<br><br><br>

poxy

Our eldest started at Ashmount this September. It seems ok. Everyone at the school is very much looking forward to the move to the new site after the Xmas break. It'll be interesting to see how the move affects the school and the kids over the next couple of years. The existing site is a handicap in so many ways, limiting the potential of the kids. The new site looks amazing and I hope everyone can make the best of it.

boxrunner

Thanks @poxy.  Are there any specifically good points or bad points about Ashmount that you've noticed?  What are the main issues with the old site that you hope the new site will resolve?<br>

poxy

First question: Nothing of note as yet. Ask me again at the end of this year. Second question: There's a list, a very long list. Which collectively justifies the £15M cost of the new site.

David Barry

Entirely reasonable of Poxy to reserve judgement until she has seen more. And its a good reminder that everyone experiences a school through the medium of their child's experience. That is why I always say when asked (and sometimes when I have not been asked) that while there is such a thing as a bad school, there is really no such thing as a good school, just a school that is right for YOUR child.<div><br></div><div>What you should do is go and look at schools, and read their OFSTEDS. </div><div><br></div><div>(Because I am connected to Ashmount I have a bias and interest to declare; I like the school and both my children went to it.) </div><div><br></div><div>In the area Ashmount serves people usually have a choice of schools. That means that on the one hand most people who come to Ashmount have chosen the school -they could have gone elsewhere, and on the other hand some people who could have come to Ashmount if they wanted will have chosen other schools.</div><div><br></div><div>Its called parental choice....</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

andy

poxy is a he.

David Barry

Noted. (The gender of Poxy.)

Bridget J

I think if you visited the schools you would form an opinion very quickly.<br>

boxrunner

I am indeed visiting all the schools I previously mentioned, as well as reading the Ofsted reports and researching other information where I can find it.  Part of that is speaking to parents whose children are currently at those schools (or other I may have missed) to understand their perspectives.  I don't intend for other parents to do my work for me, but their experiences help me understand the school; its attitude and approach.  <br><br>It's called building-up a full picture.<br>

David Barry

Certainly. And any scrap of information can be useful; I suspect that was was lying behind what I wrote was my own experience of parents and grandparents saying strange things about schools, sometimes confusing one school with an other, and being (for good or ill) out of date.<div><br></div><div>Also schooling is for many people a fraught issue.</div><div><br></div><div>We have probably all met the "left wing" person who has to tell you how awful all the schools were in their area because they feel a need to  justify using a fee paying school......</div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div>So while getting any opinions you can is worth doing, you do need to validate them for yourself. Which of course you will, but real need for a health warning!</div></div>

conformable_kate

I'm a carer for my niece, now 8, at Pooles Park. It has worked very well for her; the teachers are lovely, they have good support and monitoring systems, pastoral care etc, as well as activities around the garden, after school clubs etc. My impression is that it's a small and supportive school with a wide range of children which does its best to look after them as individuals. My only comparison really is where my daughter (now 20!) went, Yerbury in Tufnell Park: much more highly rated and basically much more middle class, and she was fine there, but I think PP is a more engaged and thoughtful environment. But it does depend what would suit your child, as people keep saying. <div><br></div>

boxrunner

Thanks @conformable_kate, that's good to know.  We were really impressed by Pooles Park when we went, both in terms of their approach to traditional learning, and their focus on other activities like the gardens.  The head and deputies seem to have a real direction and that's now coming through in the latest Ofsted report.<br><br>I wonder what your opinion is of the cohort of school's pupils, and how the school manages the issue of pushing those children with English as a first language, at the same time as helping (as they do) children with English as a second language?<br>

boxrunner

@David Barry: exactly, that's why I'm asking for input from parents whose children are currently at the school.<br>