Election Day Thread

markwhitehead

Yes the Lib Dems have had it round here and probably nationally too. How many people voted Lib Dem so that they could prop up a Tory government? Not many, I warrant.
Nick Clegg has shot the Lib Dem party in its collective foot.
So now we're to be run by Lord Snooty and his pals, supported by our own Lynne Featherstone... wonder what she's got to say about it.

ActionVerb

Arkady - we had a brief discussion pre-election about the convergence of tory and lib-dem policy. It seems that I was unfortuntely right to be worried about a potential lib-con coalition. Irrespective of the concessions that the conservatives have made to the lib dems, I am glad that i didn't vote lib dem. Not in my name and all that..

Reactionary it may be, and perhaps only time will tell (apologies for the cliche), but as a floating lefty voter, the Lib Dems have lost me for the foreseable future.

In terms of Labour - I'm pretty confident that they will end up back in power at the next election. We've all read the same newspapers over the last few days, so I wont regurgitate any of the analysis, but it does appear likely, at least to me, that Labour will come out of this a lot stronger, while the other two may have issues with their core vote and the consequences of severe spending cuts.

Arkady

ActionVerb What an interesting day. ConDemNation! I confess that, given the tribalist and infantile ya-boo nature of our political party debate in this country, I did think A Con-Lib agreement was unlikely, and a coalition nigh-on unthinkable. And I confess to being disappointed that a Lib-Lab deal failed to materialise. I think that the electoral math is the main factor there, though it was sad to see some of the thuggish and authoritarian faction of Labour - led by Reid - coming out for a high minded 'Glorious Opposition' as though that was the best way of protecting the many positive parts of their legacy. As opposed to, say, giving up ID cards in order to forge a compromise with Clegg. But as I've bored on about before, I am a pluralist not a tribalist. In this light, and in with the party closes to my values now in coalition government having gained astonishing concessions from the Tories, I am at least... intrigued. Tory excesses will be checked. It does suggest a new liberal moment. And, if they manage to get through an AV referendum that is successful (by no means certain) the new pluralism will become the norm. In future elections Lib and Lab can and will enter coalitions of their own. The Lib Dems may take a knock in the medium term, but that really depends on what happens over this term. Mr Clegg and his merry band may be about to surprise us all.. again. Let's wait and see. A

wisteria53

Even so, the news has been quite depressing to watch. Maybe I need to get British citizenship so I can vote next time round. Anyone have a spare £800 plus a crib sheet for the test?

andy

Has Lynne got a job? 20/57 lib dems in govt...

Ali

It’s official at least according to the Fabian Society that Hornsey & Wood Green is now a marginal it just needs one in 5 LibDem votes to move to Labour. It is generally an interesting thesis. http://www.fabians.org.uk/images/stories/pdfs/REPORT_on_electoral_opportunities_for_Labour_from_a_LibDem-Tory_pact1.pdf

andy

People are assuming this will all go wrong. A moderate centrist coalition could be exactly what the majority of the electorate are looking for.

nick_m

Agreed Andy. It's disapointing to hear Lib Dem voters so stridently against this coalition. I also assumed the Lib Dems would never do a deal with the Tories, but ultimately they had no choice. As Arkady says, it's a matter of electoral maths. And if you voted Lib Dem, you must have known about their stance on electoral reform that will always throw up coalition governments. And, in that, there's always the possibility of the Lib Dems having to do a deal with the Tories if the election (whether in our current FPTP system or a more proportional one) presents a result like this. Although not instictively, I see it as positive. Tories have the most seats, many more than the Lib Dems, but look at the government. It is a true power sharing coalition - not a sop to the Lib Dems. For a Lib Dem supporter, this surely must be better than decades of no power and better than a purely Tory government. It should deliver a moderate, pluralist form of politics that we haven't seen in this country during my lifetime. This is exciting. If anyone will struggle, it will be Cameron; trying to reign in his party's vociferous right wing that is still calling the Lib Dems "a bunch of duplicitous shits", for deigning to talk to Labour. As for locally, I reckon Lynne represents great value as an MP for our area. She is far more vocal about local issues than Barbara Roche ever was. A lot of people on SG.org mentioned that they voted for Lynne and not necessarily because she's LD, but because she's good for this area. That is something that an LD-Tory coalition cannot change.

andy

I'm amazed that Cameron has (apparently) offered what he has. A referendum on PR, Deputy PM, giving up stuff like the IHT rebate. I never thought he'd get stuff like that past his own party. The need to keep a coalition together should put the mockers on stupid 'symbolic' stuff around foxhunting and the more rabid anti-european/anti-immigration stuff. Perhaps they'll also dismantle some of the more anti-civil liberty/terror stuff around ID cards, DNA databases and so on. So it might not be, in the eyes of most voters, the end of the world. Best case is Cameron turns out (ironically) to be a Helmut Kohl-type European Christian Democrat rather than a Thatcher type and that the rabid bits of the Tory party are somewhat neutered. It's more likely that this government will be brought down by the Tory right wing than by the Lib Dems.

Arkady

I agree with nick_m and Andy on this. It's the Tory right that we now have to watch, and they will surely be neutered. A change in the electoral system might well end up with a lot of them joining UKIP. Andy - the agreement appears to scrap ID cards and the DNA database, which is excellent news. Portillio made exactly the same Cameron-as-Christian Democrat argument last night. The amusing thing about that is that he has said he is not a man of faith - as has Clegg. I wonder if it's the first non-religious leadership since Attlee... A

Arkady

I was mistaken about Cameron on faith - it seems he has some kind of weak church of England affiliation, but his statements haven't been that convincing.

Ali

Now the Libdems are in Government maybe something will be done about the Haringey school funding scandal as I believe the Libdems have a fully costed set of proposals on this ? http://www.lynnefeatherstone.org/issues/haringey-schools Lynne , How about a quick win on this to appease those who believed that the “Tories couldn’t win here !” It looks Lynne’s web-site will need a major re-write as she can’t blame the Government for everything now

yagamuffin

Really?
Ooh, I'm never going to vote Lib Dem ever again. Well boo fucking hoo.
What did you want them to do? Sit back and say no, force another election where the outcome would most likely be pretty much the same? Or would you rather they formed a losers coalition and propped up an ailing Labour party.
As for the surprise, this has always been the Lib Dem way, some policies point left, some point right.
At the next election I will again look at the manifestos and policies and vote for the party I think is in the best position to take the country forward. If they don't win but choose to form a coalition with the most popular party amongst my peers then fine, I'm cool with that.

Arkady

Pluralist politics is about long-trousered debate and compromise. Those Lib Dems who are throwing their toys out of the pram need to grow up, there was no other mature choice. This article sums it up well: <http://www.libdemvoice.org/i-disagreed-with-nick-and-i-was-wrong-maybe-19455.html>;

rainbow_carnage

Whenever anyone says, "The electorate has spoken," I want to punch him in the face.

The public didn't get together and decide to vote for a hung parliament. There wasn't a box you could tick on the ballot that said, "I don't trust any single party to govern alone."

People voted for a party or for a particular candidate. Most went with whomever they usually vote for. A few voted strategically against a party. No one voted for a hung parliament or a coalition. It's just not possible to manipulate the electoral maths like that with your single vote.

ADGS

Arkady and Yagamuffin - agreed.

While the coalition deal is obviously far from perfect, I much prefer it not only to the Conservative manifesto but also to the New Labour one, and in some respects I even prefer it to the Lib Dem one (less Europhilia, more open to nuclear options in defence and power). There's a lot of progressive stuff in there on taxes and pensions, and even a commission on the West Lothian Question, which I didn't think *anyone* was offering.

miss annie

It seems to be the people that voted strategically that have created the situation that they are now moaning about.

I think that the coalition is the best option for the UK at the moment. Other European countries have managed just fine with coalitions, we just have to get used to the idea that's it will happen more often in the future too.

Ali

Just maybe something will happen about the Haringey School under funding issues now that Sarah Teather has been named as an education minister. If Haringey gets the same funding as Islington it will mean £1000 more a pupil and is worth about £300k to SG School which would help massively the life chances for a lot of the kids around here. I am assuming that Lynne who has made a bit of fuss about this will be lobbying her colleague?

dion

They could have used the money they wasted on the £750k cycle park for the school.

Ali

That was TfL

Ali

also it is about £20m to do this across Haringey

Ali

Lynne has been appointed parliamentary under-secretary for equalities in the new coalition Government. Should be fun working for Theresa May, shoes and all that !

dion

Ali - it is still tax payer money going to protecting bikes rather than educating the poor wee children

yagamuffin

It's not free, you still have to pay to keep your bike there. I think they are planning for it to pay for itself eventually.

dion

I counted 14 bikes when I last went past. At 50p per day per bike, the payback date is 7 October 2303. So yes, it will pay for itself eventually.

sg_mike

Ah, but for every 50 people who bike to Finsbury Park rather than get a bus, that saves around £50k a year ...

Duncan

... not to mention the future saving to the NHS

dion

Not getting the bus doesn't save money, it costs the taxpayer lost bus fares. Increased cost to the NHS now as cyclists get hit by buses and skip lorries

andy

*Ah, but for every 50 people who bike to Finsbury Park rather than get a bus, that saves around £50k a year* This confuses average savings with marginal savings. You only get the £50k if you take the saving. You only get the saving if you run fewer buses. There are the same amount of buses as before. So the 'saving' is entirely conceptual.

graeme

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