Police cordon on Parkland Walk

Ali

Wightman Rd shooting <http://www.hornseyjournal.co.uk/content/haringey/hornseyjournal/news/story.aspx?brand=HCEJOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newshcej&itemid=WeED14 Jul 2010 15:53:00:040&gt;

sincers

Ironic.... this just posted on the BBC News site (apologies can't figure the linky thing!) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10645702

Papa

Crime is meant to rise in a recession - but mainly the nicking stuff off people type of crime. ie burglarly and mugging Here's two thoughts on why it hasn''t risen as much this time round. And bear in mind, I'm making these up as I go along. 1) I heard burglary was not as popular as you;d expect as the dirt cheap price of large consumer goods, ie TVs, computers, dvd players means that they are much tougher to fence and get cash worth the effort for. Due to that and the rise of people carrying a ludicrous value of technology with them pre-recession, Ipods, mobile phones etc. mugging and bag snatching had already risen - so maybe not such a marked increase recession wise as you'd notice 2) Low interest rates. This obviously only helps homeowners, but there's a sizeable chunk of people with mortgages who have seen repayments dive and substantially ease recession pain - could this filter through to less pressure on crime rising. I'm willing to wager in Britain's upwardly mobile society (and thanks to the easy access mortgage days) even among potential casual criminals there's a fair few homeowners. Any light you can shed or rising, falling or stable crime Stroud Green SNT?

sincers

Ha - got it! <http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10645702>;

Ali

I also think that the local neighbourhood Police Team are making genuine efforts to engage with local youth which is where most of this type of crime comes from. Also agree with argument about the price of goods and their location. Wireless laptops were the reason for burglary around here a while back but as they become more common and down in price there is no where to fence them. Big TVs are hard to run off with as well. I think there are definitely more stabbings and shootings going on around here and I don’t like a lot of the “trophy” dogs that are around the place either

Arkady

You might be right Ali - but is your 'definitely' supported by perception or facts? With respect, lots of people are certain about a lot of things that are not in reality true, or at least not provable.

JaneDoe

I was very sad to read this today:

http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/content/islington/gazette/news/story.aspx?brand=ISLGOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsislg&itemid=WeED14%20Jul%202010%2017%3A43%3A26%3A120

There is a piece in the same issue about Islington Council being urged to do something about 'status' dogs and I really hope they do. There are two parks near me that I wouldn't go into because they are usually full of dogs that look out of control and are off the lead.

ADGS

With these two line links to local papers, I can't even paste them into mt browser, I just get the newspaper sites but not the specific story.

Ian

@ADGs [try this](http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/content/islington/gazette/news/story.aspx?brand=ISLGOnline&category=news&tBrand=northlondon24&tCategory=newsislg&itemid=WeED14 Jul 2010 17:43:26:120)

Liz

That really is sad - she's a nice lady and he was a sweet dog.

xxxxxxx

The amount of muscle dogs in this area is completely intimidating. We have a 'park' right near us that is basically an area where pitbulls, mastifs, etc. are taken to train jumping and fighting each other.

I used to love it here but there are so many dodgy people around and gangs that we are moving out.

Bridget

Its really sad. I walk past her on the way home with my son from nursery and sometimes we hang around outside and Joe points at her dogs and talks to them and the little one which was killed and she was sitting outside looking really glum. I then read in the paper what had happened. It's disgusting how dogs are treated here and people can get away with letting them attack people and dogs, shit everywhere and intimidate people.

I think this area is getting really out of hand to be honest, the amount of stabbings is so out of control. There seems to be something every week if not twice a week. Almost every other night there is a helicopter overhead.

I dont think the police are that visible, especially at night. We hardly ever hear them. When we do call the police they take ages to come if they come at all.

We had a girl being assulted in the street being by her boyfriend as she lay on the ground - or a man - we called the police and they never turned up at all.

We have had people screaming in the park behind us and have called the police several times and they have never turned up.

We have so much open drug dealing its like living in The Wire, we have drug dealers fighting in the streets, several people have written to the police but we have only seem on stop and search in 3 years.

Sorry I feel a bit ranty about this because I really don't that safe here and I don't believe the police response to our calls have made us feel particularly safe.

Im pleased they seem to be making arrests though.

Bridget

miss annie

Gosh! That's not my experience of SG at all - and I live near the huge Andover estate.

I notice groups of urchins hanging about but that used to happen when I was a young 'un too. They don't necessarily seem to be 'gangs', and they don't give off aggressive vibes.


There are a few butch looking dogs, but also a little furry white dog that wears pink baby socks which more than balances things out.

Perhaps I wear rose tinted specs but I like it here.

Bridget

I like it here too!

There is lots going for it.

ActionVerb

ah, that piece above is the incident I was referring to. Dont think she was exactly rushed to the hospital, the injured lady was there for at least half an hour in quite a lot of distress. at least the good news is that she's back at the shop, now I understand the reason for the bandage when I handed in my dry cleaning yesterday.

dorothy

Yes at least she didn't lose the finger despite it hanging by a thread. Must be very traumatic seeing your dog killed. Chips was quite a yappy thing though wasn't he?

ADGS

It says in the piece that Chips ran out. It does always puzzle me when I see small yappy dogs trying to pick fights with much bigger creatures; looks like Chips chose the wrong big dog to try it on with.
(Not that I like weapon dogs either, I hasten to add. I don't know why they ever got rid of the dog license. Then again, I also think there should be a license needed for children)

Papa

It would be nice to see something done to tackle this problem of status dogs, but on the basis that the police don't seem to even care about dogs that are currently illegal I don't hold out much hope. Personally, I'd like to see councils bring in local by-laws banning dogs from being off a lead except in set park areas. Then I'd like to see the police enforce it. If we can have daft laws banning having a beer on the tube or on the streets where there is a perceived drinking problem, then we can start tackling areas with dog problems such as the one we live in. Yes, this affects the majority to control the minority. But once the problem is eradicated it could be lifted, and let's face it sensible dog owners don't wander about (or cycle down the pavement) with their dog off a leash. Also, and this is one for Stroud Green SNT, although I don't know if you cover Islington as well as Haringey, why do we never see any police on the streets, except for during an Arsenal game. How many police are actually patrolling the areas between Seven Sisters Road, Crouch Hill, Hornsey Road and the railway line? The perception of crime is much worse than actual crime levels, but in five years I reckon I could count on two hands the amount of times I've actually seen police patrolling round here on foot when there hasn't been a match on.

ADGS

The street drinking laws are absurd - though the only time I've ever fallen foul of them, I had an empty can and was looking for a bin anyway, so the PCSOs did me a favour by confiscating it. And the dog laws, similarly, would be applied as a blunt weapon. Yesterday, near the park, a charming little puppy was trotting along with a stick in his mouth twice as long as he was, wandering up to people to say hello - I don't want his owner getting a bollocking because he wasn't on a lead. What's needed, rather than yet more illiberal and categorical legislation, is more discretion for the police to stop people who are just being dicks, and tell them to stop being dicks. I'm sure it's already on the statute books as 'public nuisance' or 'breach of the peace' or something.

Ali

Arkady I don’t read the Daily Mail or listen much to the likes of Michael Howard so it is perception. Interestingly when you click through to the paper article about poor Chips there seems to be several articles in the news section about nasty things going on around here. Papa L I have seen the guy cycling on the pavement with his Dog charging along off the leash look really intimidating . I once saw the look of absolute horror on the face of a mum with a three year old walking up the pavement with the dog charging towards here. Scary stuff ! I have seen the Stroud Green SNT walking about SG a fair bit and on Parkland Walk but is has always been during the day I have never seen them on the beat at night after dark. This seems to be when the police are in reactionary mode clearing up the mess afterwards and spending a fortune with the Helicopter. Maybe our local police could indicate how they will react to the recent out break of crime ? There must be some numbers published about crime stats etc I found this <http://www.findaproperty.com/crimefacts.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&areaid=0257>; but it is not particularly granular so you can't see what is going on here although as it is a property site what there is might put people off coming here. Best bet is that it starts to rain a lot as that keeps people in doors !

dorothy

I had to go into Image Dry Cleaners today. Poor Munuver's in a dreadful state, she said she would have gladly lost the finger if it would have saved the dog. His ashes are now next to her sowing machine. It got me thinking about how you effectively get a dog to unlock it's jaws if it's savaging your dog/cat/leg. An old boyfriend of mine who was seriously into martial arts taught me loads of self defense things. He said to kill a dog instantly you had to punch it in the solar plexus hard. I wonder if this is true.

miss annie

I'm not sure that I would have the presence of mind to punch a dog if it had me in it's jaws.

Apparently the best way to shake off a shark is to punch it in the eye - not the nose as that is too near it's gigantic teeth. Fortunately they'll never have trophy sharks on the streets of SG so I'm unlikely to ever have try out that theory.

andy

Our dog was attacked by a nasty status dog. He locked onto our dog's neck and wouldn't let go. The police came to the scene and could not have been less interested. It may even have been the same dog that killed Chips, as it was just up the road. The way you get a dog to release when it has a lock on is to pour water up its nose, choking its airway, forcing it to open its mouth to take air. Nothing else works.

Arkady

Can you hold its nose?

Tallboy

You shove your fingers up its nose.

ben

How does it smell?

sincers

I think licenses are the way forward, but should be regulated by local govt. Clearly there's a greater need for urban pet owners to demonstrate that they have the facilities to keep dogs where its not such a problem for rural dwellings. Its largely unfair to keep dogs unless they can be assured of close care. This is a responsibility issue. If people are desperate to keep a dog, they'll be happy to fork out for a license. The license can fund a system of checks and balances in the same way you'd be expect to have support for a new child. Prospective owners should be put through the wringer on issues of care, behaviour, training, bye laws and so on. Society at large is proving that it cannot currently take this responsibility voluntarily, so the state should intervene until behaviour changes.

ADGS

Pavement cycling - now there's something which is already illegal and just needs some semblance of enforcement. Ideally by broomsticks through the spokes.

Gas Powered Ninja

ADGS - now you're talking. I fully advocate vigilante action against pavement cyclers.

Papa

But the police show a complete disinterest in stopping and even criticising people who behave like dicks, seemingly unless they are middle-class folk that represent an easy target. And I base that not on having read a Richard Littlejohn column, but at the most simple level on the comparable man hours I've seen police spend on stopping people cycling through a red light on empty roads near Regent's Park vs behaving like absolute ****s on the streets where we live. (And no, I've not been done for the former so have no axe to grind) If the only way you can get them to act is by bringing in daft bye laws then so be it. I feel for the owner of the cute puppy, but if it gets these potential horror stories off the streets then it helps everyone and potentially stops the puppy ending up in a thug dog's jaws. If you want to let your dog off the leash do it in an appropriate area of the park. These dogs, both illegal and legal, such as badly treated Staffies, have reached problem level. True, it's not the dog, it's the owner, but in the complete absence of anything being done about thug dogs something so draconian and illiberal that I wouldn't normally condone seems the only option.