Benches outside Tesco

Emma

Maybe the benches are on strike today?

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Klinneract

I call the one directly outside Tesco's doors "The bench of lost souls." Can't say I'm gutted that they've been removed as it was just getting silly, the number of alcoholics and druggies who were always using them. I feel sorry for unfortunate people in such dire straits, but then again, why should local people have to feel intimidated and unwelcome in their own neighbourhood by those who cannot behave in a socially responsible way?

andy

Tough on sitting down, tough on the causes of sitting down.

Arkady

@ andy: Ha! Emma wins first prize though. Why the hell would TFL control the benches? It’s not that close to the bus stop.

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JungleFaceJake

Arkady

You were not solely apposing Anti-Social behaviour, but All people to which your taxes go to 'help'

Your point was that if they do not accept responsibility then they will be punished. That they are not deserving of help because
they will not help themselves.

The fact that you couldn't follow my argument probably say's a lot about your own blinkered view.

Your point about anti-social behaviour being bad is accepted. Your point that all non-tax payers apart from the mentally ill and cripplingly addicted, need to help themselves overlooks a problem with social funding, education and standards of living that span generations.

I have said on previous threads that there are things that you can do in the community that can help to alleviate social behaviour
such as volunteering and Mentoring.

Contacting your local MP to suggest that problems with any social problem are escalating and that working in partnership with community charities and other NGO's can help to bring people together.

As I said, I have never experienced anything other than seeing them talking loudly on the benches, but others have other experiences.

Just saying that we are well rid is a problem in itself, and will ultimately create problems within the community, maybe not ours but somewhere else.

You seem to fall back on defensive pontificating rather than maybe attempting to look at the problem from the roots up.

I accept that suggesting you were a Tory was a low blow, as no one deserves to be tarnished as such, I retract that base insult.

I do hope you can forgive me.

Arkady

JFJ, it seems we’re largely in agreement. Our disagreement is I think largely down to you misunderstanding me and/or misrepresenting me, and if that’s my fault I’m sorry. Nowhere have I said that I “oppose all people to which your taxes go to 'help'”. I’m very much a redistributionist in that regard. Nor have I said “all non-tax payers apart from the mentally ill and cripplingly addicted, need to help themselves”. I’m not sure how I could have led you to that view of me to be honest. To the contrary, I would be happy to contribute more. You seem to think I’m resentful about it, I’m not. To the contrary. On the other hand I do think that people need to be responsible for their own actions as much as possible. What makes me different from a Tory is that I regard the state as having a big role in enabling that. Perhaps you agree. The narrow point that I was making was this – yes these people should be helped, and yes they should be helped more than they are now. We are in agreement about this I think. At the same time, I am suggesting that some people might choose not to accept help – that is their right – and others might not be helped sufficiently. That does not justify anti-social behaviour on their part. A distinction needs to be drawn between an explanation and an excuse. Even if their problems have structural causes which need to be addressed, that does not *justify* that behaviour, it only explains it. And in this case – removing the benches – it removes the consequences of their actions from those who are *not* being anti-social while, perhaps, encouraging them not to be antisocial and get help. The idea that society needs to offer both rewards for positive social behaviour and sanctions for antisocial behaviour is hardly new or controversial, it’s the foundation of socialisation. For the record, I’m currently in the process of researching mentoring, inspired by people on this very forum. I rather suspect my views are significantly different from your representation of them here. All this over a bench.

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JungleFaceJake

Fair do's..

The Bench(es) do represent a lot more than was first imagined...

I wonder what has happened to commissar17, it's much easier when there is a more obvious set of values to have a go at as one.

I miss him.

Anyway, I have work to do.

The world ain't gonna save itself.... Or something

Arkady

Yeah let’s go after the Stalinists, there’s an easy target whatever your political persuasion. Though they’re probably making a big contribution to Movember.

N4Matt

I blame the bankers and the tories.

Where the hell am I supposed to collect free money for skag now?

It's a diabolical liberty.

Jim

The removal of benches for "Anti Social Cleansing" by the council, Tescos or whoever is awful, outrageous infact. I have never had problems with dunks, homeless people, bongo players or anybody who sits there. Let people be !

ADGS

The bongo player in particular was not letting people be - he/she was making a bloody racket audible right up the street. And as he/she sowed, so has he/she reaped.

Jim

So ADGS you are the busker/music karma police?

kreuzkav

The people on the bench issue hasn't been a big problem for me as I rarely heard the bongo player and the drunks/drug addicts on the bench never hassled me . However, I did sit down on the bench a few times over the last ten years and got accosted by the man who walks up and down a lot asking for money and a few other people. These are community benches and shouldn't be monopolised by a few people. There is social help and welfare for the homeless/drug addicted/alcoholics (maybe not for long). From what I've heard from a drug outreach worker one of the main beggars outside tesco has been addicted to crack for over ten years and is not homeless as she was living in a house near the junction of SGR Tollington rd ( near Nandos) for quite some time. Fair enough if she begs but I don't think giving her money and letting her and her out of it mates have sole rights to the bench is helping her and them much.

I'm sure the issue is more serious for others, especially with the bongo player and the nearby flats ( don't forget up to 1000 people live on SGR). I would have probably taken his bongos off him and sent him with his trust fund back to his rich parents.

ADGS

No, Jim, as much as I would have liked to put the bongo-player's head through his/her bloody bongos, I was simply one of the silently seething majority. I am simply glad that action has been taken which makes further bongo atrocities less likely.
(As a matter of basic courtesy, buskers should never use instruments whose sound carries too far. This is why the acoustic guitar remains the classic - shit as most of its exponents are, you're soon out of range. Although tying back to your mention of karma police, there was a chap in Cambridge who did very good Radiohead renditions on clarinet)

Jenowl

The bongos have moved. They are now being played under the railway bridge near the station and can be heard from as far as the wig zone.

sincers

Yes, saw him too. He's figured out that the acoustics under the bridge carry his lovely melodies even further - yippee. By the way, has anyone noticed the 'bongo school' at that strange building on the other side of the FP cycle park. A load of them 'practice' hitting said bongos for hours on end. This could mean a trend in bongo playing around ever corner.

Emma

I noticed him this morning as well. There is NO BENCH under the bridge - so has this all been for nothing??

norton

I was against having seating outside Tesco and further along Stroud Green Road, because I knew they would be taken over by local drunks and the great unwashed.

miss annie

He was there at the weekend, it severely upset me having to walk past him on Sunday morning with my Hallowe'en hangover!

Jenowl

@Emma, the absence of a bench under the bridge links neatly to Jim's spurious Pigeon Poo thread. Perhaps the bongos will scare away the pesky pigeons and they will poo elsewhere (Perth Road)?

Four Eyes

There's a bench removal protest going on outside Tescos at the moment. Communist man has put down a 'temporary bench' (plastic garden chairs) and is squatting there with the woman in the green shell suit, hairy legs and beard. There's a sign up inviting anyone to take a seat...

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Arkady

FourEyes, Is the red flag up?

Four Eyes

Yes Arkady I think the red flag was up when I went past earlier. There's a little placard too. It's a revolution.

miss annie

Gosh, we should have been that proactive about the trees!

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Four Eyes

Misscara, join the revolution. Bring your deckchair and a can of Special Brew