residential parking permits.

edited October 2012 in Sharing
I got up this morning and  found a penalty notice on my car. Lovely ! Haringey had not sent out a reneweal notice/ reminder as they usedto,  when the cpz started, so I got fined, as my permit expired a week ago. I am really annoyed about this.  As the same thing happened last year, and I appealed and got off, I doubt that they will let me off this year. Clearly no resident is going is going to purposefully default, as they would end up paying £60 a day until they renewed, which adds up to £30,000 over a year (reduced rate!) . <br>Upper Tollington Park,  where I live, is dug up ever other week, I am very diligant about looking at the notices outside , as I often can't park outside my own house, and that has been the case for months. In fact last year they actually moved my car and put it in another street without informing me. It was only because my neighbour saw it happening , and told me. Had to search the streets for an hour to find it! I couldn't find them though !!! It's one way traffic there !!! <br>I am so angry about this. It is clearly a stealth tax for cash strapped Haringey, and to my mind is totally unfair and unreasonable. Just wanted to warn you guys to check your permits, and ask if anybody else had been stung this way ?<br>


  • <u>an update<br><br></u>I left the penalty notice on my car overnight so i could sort it out today. I woke upto find a SECOND penalty notice on there. apparently Haringey is allowed to hand out one per day. Pity they can't get their wardens to put a permit renewal reminder on there instead when they check the dates and see it is about to expire !!!!! <br><br>Does anybody else think this is completely unfair and unreasonable or is it just me ? Are we supposed to have computers for brains now ? It would certainly seem so !<u><br></u>
  • Do they send no reminder at all?
  • According to the lovely lady on the phone, she said she could not say wther they send them out or not, but "the onus is on the permit holder to make sure it is upto date"<br><br>Hwoever this is just what i read online<br><p><a href=""></a></p>; <p>You can <a title="Resident Parking Permit Renewal" href="">renew your resident parking permit online</a>. We send out a renewal reminder letter to existing permit holders five weeks before it runs out. However we recognise that there are some occasions when our renewal letters do not reach their intended destination, therefore if you have not received your renewal letter three weeks before the expiry of your existing resident permit please send an email to <a title="" href=""></a> confirming your name, address, permit expiry date and vehicle registration.</p><p><br></p><p>HAS ANYBODY OUT THERE ACTUALLy RECEIVED A REMINDER ?, because if not, this is very misleading. So if i understand this goes like this;</p><p>they will send you reminder, BUT ..if you do not receive your have to remind <b>THEM</b>  remind <b>YOU </b>. How bloody ridiculous is that ???!!!!!!!!!!</p><p>Sorry... I am seething !!!!!!!!<br></p><p><br></p><br>
  • I'm feeling in a bit of a conspiracy theory mood today.<div><br></div><div>I'm thinking that they don't actually ever send out reminder notices.</div><div>I am assuming that the wardens don't look closely at each permit to check the date. What I am thinking happens is that the wardens get a notification when permits in their streets have run out and not been renewed, they then seek out the cars and give out the penalty notice.</div><div><br></div><div>All so that the council can maximise their income from parking charges - something which *I think* by law they are not allowed to make a profit on, only cover their costs.</div>
  • Intersting theory Yagamuffin ! And one that would not surprise me at all  !!! <br><br>The obvious thing for the Council to do ( that's if the council really were there to serve it's community..haha ) would be to issue little renewal reminder slips that our friendly traffic wardens could slip[ under our wipers when they see we our permits are coming close to expiry date. <br><br>The stuff of fairytales eh ? <br>
  • I'm not sure Haringey council is organised enough to come up with such s nefarious plan.
  • On the basis that residents parking, aka CPZs, are supposedly run for the benefit of residents, this sounds like a very sensible and highly praiseworthy idea.<br><br>'The obvious thing for the Council to do would be to issue little renewal reminder slips that our friendly traffic wardens could slip under our wipers when they see we our permits are coming close to expiry date.'<br><br>You get a reminder, you don't do something about it, then you get fined.<br><br>Will never happen.<br><br>As a side note, I understand that part of Islington's move to electronic permits is that once that and electronic visitor vouchers are totally up and running, they could simply send a car with automatic numberplate recognition down the road and catch everyone without permits in one fell swoop.<br><br>I don't seem to remember the Council consulting any residents on that use of Big Brother technology.<br><br><br>
  • Number plate recognition is unlikely to work in that scenario. If cars are parked close enough they won't be able to see the number plate.<div><br></div>
  •'s certainly ruined my weekend. Just spoke to Haringey, who told me that as my permit has now expired, I can no longer 't renew on line. I must now go queue up at one of the understaffed customer service centres. They told me to try and get there 45 mins before it opens as there will be queues, and  that I can expect to be there for hours !!!!  Oh....and what if i happen to go to work ? Their advice........"go find a friend to queue up for you"<br><br>Now I have the choice of using up all my visitor permits over the weekend or driving out of zone to a road that has not been policed and monetised YET, as I now have no right to park outside my own house.<br><br>If you know of anyone that has actually received a reminder, please do let me know, as this will be part of my appeal. If they are not sending out reminders, then Haringey council are clearly supplying us with misleading information to trap us. <br>
  • <P>Councillors where are you ?</P> <P> </P>
  • upper tollington park<br>
  • @rosesky: Is this a unique problem, or do you require third-party reminders for other aspects of your life?
  • Like paying the rent, or credit cards....<br>
  • edited October 2012
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  • In fairness, you can set up a direct debit for rent, or credit cards. I don't know whether you can for permits, but if you can't, it would certainly support the idea that the council is profiteering from fines.
  • goodness.....wasn't expecting those last responses. I tend not to  put things on direct debit, because i am on a low income and can't afford bank fees when i go overdrawn. I don't have masses of moeny in the bank<br><br>My point is that nobody in their right mind intentionally forgets to renew their residential parking permit. The council knows that. You cannot win in that situation.  It is not like trying to get away with parking on a double yellow. I am happy to pay the actual cost of a reminder letter should I forget..but i cannot afford to pay £60<br><br>I don't have a calendar for this time next year to write it on..and that is how i remember things. I think fining every mistake that people inadvertently makes, creates a stressful fearbased society. This is why half the population is on antidepressants. <br><br>I may not be a high earner, but I contribute a lot to this society. I do a lot of voluntary work with suicidal people. I see the horrific effects of living in a society where people live in fear of inadvertantly making mistakes and being judged harshly by other people. <br><br>The trouble with monetary  fines is they are not fair, as they are not income related. To a lawyer, a £60 fine is less than an hours work. To someone on minimum wage, that represents 12 hours work. <br><br> These last few messages have actually made me feel quite depressed. I feel full of fear that people at large are becoming more and more indoctrinated.... like machines, with calculators in place of hearts. This is how nazism flourishes...when people stop thinking with their hearts, and think only with their heads.<br><br>I inadvertently  forgot to renew my permit. I didn't hurt anybody. I  didn't do anything with wilful intention to deceive. I simply forgot to renew my permit on time. I have lived in the same house for 23 years. Haringey have all my details. An automated emal reminder is all that is required. This is a stealth tax...pure and simple. I am amazed that  people cannot see that.<br><br><br><br>
  • Dearie me. Perhaps sticking a note to your boiler or other immovable object, or setting a reminder on your phone (even my ancient old Nokia could do that), or computer might help you? I wouldn't really expect a council to send you reminders. What you must bear in mind when using a public forum is that not everyone is going to sympathise or have the same point of view as you. If a little disagreement makes you feel depressed and fearful, calling people Nazis is not the way forward.
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  • I think you are right. They should have sent out a reminder. It should be part of the service you are paying for when you pay for your permit. Good luck with the appeal.
  • From Islington - when permits were first introduced they came with reminders. Also the date was handily posted in your windscreen in the permit itself, so if I thought vaguely it was due in mid-November then I could check the exact date at a glance. Now we are on electronic permits, so there is no help in the windscreen, but they do still send out reminders. If they stop I am sunk, frankly, I'm not great at keeping track of this kind of thing, and I agree (naturally) that it doesn't seem like a major sin to be a bit forgetful ... I get reminders, known as bills, for every other payment, including council tax, and of course car tax (not to mention extensive correspondence when I forget to pay). Why would it be unreasonable to hope for permit reminders too? Call it a bill, and it goes without saying that they should send it out.<div><br></div><div>That said, I also agree that the recourse to nazism is a bit over the top ...</div>
  • Godwin's law in action
  • Although much earlier than usual.
  • To put my nazism comment in context, when  the population at large starts to accept fining for almost everything, as the norm, and not only accepts this, but actively defends it, this puts the government is in a very powerful position to in introduce more of the same. A compliant population is a dangerous thing to my mind. What will it be next......other bills not paid on times, such as water rates, council tax, power bills, mortgage ???? As Kate said, we used to get reminders for our service bills. Residential permits are a service, and totally unlike a one-off parking ticket where people might try and get away without buying a ticket. With a residential permit, this is not possible.. When I asked Haringey if they had sent me a reminder, even though thye were looking at all my details on a computer. they were *unable to tell me*. Nor "were they able" to tell me if they were sensing out reminders to the community at large. Odd, considering what they would have us believe this is the case on their website. <br><br>Direct debit is a great solution but only works for those that have spare cash always sitting in their bank accounts. I have to pay extra for the privelege of not paying by direct debit on some of my service bills, but at least i avoid bank fees this way. Is fining at large, a fair system? I think not, when it impacts some more than others. <br><br>The DVLA sends out reminders with forms. Haringey used to do the same. I have at no point received a letter from them stating that they were no  longer going to be doing this. The website would have you believe that that they still do.<br><br> It  has been suggested,  I should not use a forum, if it is going to make me feel depressed. My main reason for posting on this forum however was simply to find out if any other Haringey residents had received a reminder? So far I am still in the dark.If anybody can answer that I would still appreciate a reply.<br><br><br><br>
  • edited October 2012
    In Rosesky's defence.<br><br>The point is the councils do send out reminders and rightly or wrongly, depending on your personal opinion, people rely on them.<br><br>Perhaps we should have no reminder letters and then everyone can take full personal responsibility. But reminders is how the system works, same with car tax and many other things.<br><br>Unless something has changed, as part of the CPZ system it runs, the council does have an obligation to send out reminders.<br><br>The councils charge a lot of money for residents parking permits, massively over and above the cost of administering the system, and if you are a resident who has made a genuine mistake they should give you some leeway.<br><br>(Reading her post no one was actually branded a Nazi either)<br><br>@Yagamuffin - that's what I thought about the ANPR thing, but it was the council that told me that.<br><br><br><br><br>
  • It is often advisable, when finding oneself in a hole, to stop digging. 
  • We are in the FP CPZ, and did receive a reminder. 
  • <span style="font-weight: normal; ">Well, I for one am happy to admit that avoiding fines by making a note of when my library books are due in my diary, and scrawling reminders for things next year in the end papers of the same tatty volume, makes me the N4 equivalent of Eichmann. As Heine said,</span> "<em style="font-style: normal; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">where they renew books</em><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">, </span><em style="font-style: normal; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">they</em><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "> will ultimately </span><em style="font-style: normal; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">burn people"</em><em style="font-weight: bold; font-style: normal; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 16px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">.</em>
  • <i><b>when you are a self employed menopausal single mum you forget a lot of things...even to scratch reminder dates on ur calendar...sad but true. <br><br>No idea what Mirandola's comment mean...nor the Heine quote. ...way too clever for my simple brain. Thank you Vetski for ur feedback,,,,that is useful to know.<br></b></i>
  • <P> An automated emal reminder is all that is required.  You have e-mail so why not use the Calendar function as it will send you an e-mail reminder.  If your generally forgetting things  get into the habit of doing it.  I rarely  forget things as that is what  I do.We get reminders as well</P>
  • Late to this discussion so maybe too late for you, but depending where you are I have an absolute metric tonne of visitor permits for Finsbury Park B cpz that I'll never be able to use.  If you're in that area I can put some thru your door to give you a few days worth.<br>
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