Harris and Hoole is cool(e)!

nick_m

I don't go that frequently, due to having to huff and puff on the bike over the hill, which I do for exclusive reasons (Dunns & Walter Perkis), but it is good. Sometimes the coffee can be a bit bitter; I do prefer Vagabond coffee. The staff seem nice enough to me though. Admittedly, you have to face their music selection, which is fine by me, but may not be OK for some.

Brodiej

Went today. Coffee got a 6/10....a bit luke warm although the flavour was ok. Can't see what the coffee fuss is about to be honest. In other news, got a celeb spot double bill....Sean Hughes & Sue from Brookside within 30 secs.<div><br></div><div>FAO ALL MUMS - HARRIS AND HOOLE IS A BABY FRIENDLY ZONE. MASSIVE SPACE FOR BUGGIES. RIDICULOUS NUMBERS OF BABIES IN SLINGS ETC. NEVER SEEN SO MANY, IT WAS CRAZY!</div><div><br></div><div>Ps: i have no kids as yet and as such have no bias.</div><div><br></div><div>Must say, £5 for cheese and ham sandwich. No thanks.</div>

markpack

I'm an occasional visitor to Coffee Circus but no coffee expert by any means. So judge for yourself whether my views are helpful :-) Like the coffee, food not bad, prices quite high.

checkski

@brodiej.  I thought you could choose your temperature! Agree with you about prices. And too many babies, buggies, + babbling buggydrivers might be a bit off-putting (to me). I'd rather them than 99% of background music, though. Low murmur of conversation would suit me best, although the excellent Highgate Village Caffe Nero has an intriguing background of good jazz, or even the odd bit of 'classical'. I suggested to Nick, the co-owner, that he consider something similar at H&H. On my day there the background was tosh, although mercifully low-level, sonically speaking.

nick_m

<P>Checkski, I have the place for you: <A href="http://notes-uk.co.uk/">http://notes-uk.co.uk/</A></P>; <P>Admittedly, the one I go to is in Trafalgar Square, but they seriously do the best coffee in town and the atmosphere is best summed up as jazz and chat. </P>

checkski

Sounds great, Nick M. I hardly ever go to the West End, but will watch out for Notes when I do. How much do they charge for a small cappuccino? Brace yourself, Checkski...

ChangN4N6

So you have 3 cats. Have u ever removed a decayed tooth from an agonised feline?

emine

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jan/02/harris-hoole-coffee-ownership-tesco

RedSturgeon

And another mention by the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20943739

checkski

Ah well. I think I have lost this argument. I've looked in once or twice since starting this thread,but turned away immediately, on seeing the crowds, and hearing the music. Both are excessive, for me. And it's too dark. And the Tesco's connection makes me uncomfortable too, now. I am learning how abominably coffee chains treat their workers. Not only miserable pay and conditions, but sinister mystery visitors, with the power mto add or subtract bonuses ACROSS THE BOARD, if only one of the staff momentarily drops the welcoming smile. I read that about Pret A Manger, can't remember where. Something similar confirmed by one of the workers at a Costa's I visit (I'm not convinced it would help the staff if I didn't) - I won 't say where, for fear of spies... They could do with a good union. A chap at PAM was sacked for trying to start one, although he was told it was for racism, which he denies.

miss annie

The Pret thing was in The Standard this evening. Retail is firmly against unions. Most pay below the living wage (£8.82ph) with no additional pay or time off in lieu for working Bank Holidays or Sundays, and it's rare to get bonuses even if a company does well. Hours are changed on a whim - we now start at 8.30 (shop opens at 9.30) instead of 9 because our manager prefers it, and have two 15min breaks instead of one 30min one because he is a smoker and prefers that, despite the fact that all of the staff asked to stay as we were. This kind of thing is commonplace and accepted in retail, no retailer is ever going to tolerate unions. I do agree that one should endeavour to be cheery when dealing with the public though.

kreuzkav

Work has become a really bad deal for many, especially service sector workers.  It's often work conditions more than just pay that is problem.  People are generally worked harder. Whatever happened to the utopia of an affluent leisure class?  Well, some have it.  I hope after a year of submission to the royal family and sports events people will rise up and smell the coffee (but not some chain brand).

miss annie

I love the Queen but Retail is a rubbish industry to work in. This is not the Queen's fault.

checkski

In which case retail workers would benefit from, and should have the right to, an effective union. I hope you agree, Miss Annie - but I suspect you don't.

miss annie

Actually, Waterstone's in Gower St does still have some long serving members of staff (ex Dillon's staff) that belong to a union. When it belonged to Dillon's all the staff there (including me) belonged to the union although I've completely forgotten which one. I can't imagine any retailer in these cut throat times allowing a union to start.

andy

@checkski, a vain hope, I suspect.<div><br></div><div>It's been pointed out elsewhere, but the vast majority of new claimants for housing benefit are in work - either in retail or other low-paid sectors. So whilst the govt are busy stigmatising benefit recipients as "scroungers", they are making a massive transfer of government money not to them, but to their landlords. </div><div><br></div><div>This is because houses, especially here in London, cost too much. They cost too much i) because they are the only asset individuals tend borrow against with no capital gains tax ii) London property is a risk-free tax dodge for foreign-domiciled investors and iii) not enough houses get built. </div><div><br></div><div>Fix those three things along with reform of housing benefit and living wage legislation, rents come down, unfair subsidies get worked out of the system and London, over time, becomes a more equal place.</div><div><br></div><div>But in a casual, temporary, fragmented and often self-employed workforce, I don't think unions will get the traction they need and I'm not sure they can put an agenda like that together.</div><div><br></div><div>Ideas on the back of an envelope.</div>

Mirandola

@missannie - how would they stop people unionising? It's a genuine if naive question.

miss annie

I actually don't know. I don't know how one sets up a union or how many people need to join before you can take action. Can't remember at all what union I belonged to before. There definitely is a way of stopping employees joining a union because Waterstones stopped any new employees from joining when they took over Dillons.

emine

I think small unions are pretty pointless, although I suppose starting one would provoke some bad publicity, but this would be fairly short-term. Can't they join USDAW?

andy

There is a right to union recognition written in law (99 employment act, I think). There are certain exemptions (e.g. for small companies) but you can start a process that ends in secret ballot that can force an employer to recognise a union. No idea how successful this has been in practice.

Idoru

I don't understand how it can be legal for employers to prevent workers joining a union. Surely it should be a right to join a union?<br>

andy

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/indie-cafes-increasingly-run-by-bastards-pretending-to-be-dickheads-2013011055551 Essential reading on the Harris + Hoole issue

Brodiej

@Andy.....Megalolz. <div><br></div><div>"Passion for beans"........how does that manifest itself? I can imagine a fairly shouty man/women wandering around the caff shouting in peoples' faces how much they like coffee beans, and everyone saying how much they admire their passion. "They're so passionate about their beans, its just so much better than a Costa".<br><div><br></div><div>Makes me sad that the guys in Vagabond hate my guts, although i already knew about BBM.</div></div>

miss annie

“It’s just quite hard to like someone who spends more than your hourly wage on a hot caffeinated drink and a massive biscuit" True. I'm trying to remember when it started to be considered cool to carry hot milky stuff around in huge sippy cups. What did people do before? I'm a fan of handbag sized flasks full of nice hot tea. Or gin.

Peter Crumb

Why do Vagabond hate your guts?

checkski

<P>Spot on, all three of you. Particularly Miss Annie, in her last para. I couldn't work out why coffee-sipping in buses irritated me as much as inyourface bottles of water in the tube. It's because neither are to do with rereshment  - they are both fashion statements.</P> <P>But I'm no one to talk. My coffee life and posts must be annoying the pants off the rest of you. Am I a dickhead, or a bastard? Or just a prat? No answers please, least of all from Andy.</P> <P>Time to lick my wounds. Where shall it be - Costa in SGR, Archway, or CE? </P> <P>A small dry cappuccino, please. Make that a double shot. I won't have a large biscuit, thanks, because I don't want you to hate me. I'm on your side, really I am! That's why I'm here, even though SG.org thinks I shouldn't be.</P> <P>'Enjoy!'</P> <P>Thanks. I will.</P>

Brodiej

@Checkski. I am a dickhead as i go to the type of places the article makes fun of. I think its possible to have someone make fun of something without you thinking any less of it. I love coffee culture, but there are bits of it that are a bit naff. I thought it was funny and a fairly flippant view on coffee culture that resonated rather than a barbed opportunity to make fun of you! Musings about local coffee shops from you ARE interesting and not boring. I think you might be taking it all a bit too seriously......we were talking about coffee shops after all.<div><br><div><div>@PeterCrumb. Read the "funny" article and you'll see that "supposedly" all coffee shop owners hate the guts of their customers. I made the point moreso about the fact that everyone on here thinks BBM staff are miserable, and since they hate our guts i guess that makes sense.</div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>

checkski

Kind words, Brodiej, but you take me too seriously. I hoped it would be clear that my tongue was pointing sideways, for much of my last post. Yet another NY resolution: must improve my skills as an ironist.

miss annie

Victoria Coren was on Room 101 last night expressing exactly my views on tea and coffee. Well worth firing up the iplayer for.

Arkady

Though it's hard to begrudge David Mitchell anything, I'm deeply in love with Victoria Coren.  <br>