Finsbury Park Station/City North Development

kreuzkav

Spot on ADGS.  It's a case of those 'who know better' but don't really know the situation.   Those who really know better (those that live and commute in the area) know that it's going to be chaos as the passageway under the bridge is narrow and can't take the volume the closure of Well's Terrace will create.  Finsbury Park is a North London hub.  <div><br></div><div>I feel the council have been bought out or seduced by the developers and a Bob Dylan quote is called for:</div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Don’t follow leaders</span></div><p style="outline: none; margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; font-stretch: inherit;">Watch the parkin’ meters</p><p style="outline: none; margin: 0px 0px 1em; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; font-stretch: inherit;"><br></p><span style="outline: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; font-stretch: inherit;"><br style="outline: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><br style="outline: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><br></span><div><br></div><div>'</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

ADGS

Other side is Haringey, isn't it? But presumably they won't be able to do any works for the next THREE SODDING YEARS, as the route under the bridge will be even more necessary than it is at present.

maclondon

I think the bridge is Islington on both sides under the bridge - the boundaries are very weird. Islington has been very quiet even though they gave planning permission.

Arkady

No, the boundary runs down SGR under the bridge.

JoeV

I mentioned this before but what about installing new ticket machines as well as the barriers at Station Place?

Papa

An important point being missed here is cycle parking in Station Place. There are a lot of people who cycle to the station. The racks in Wells Terrace are full to the brim every working day.<div><br></div><div>Are at least the same number of racks being put in Station Place for the three year's of fun?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Arkady

I mentioned the weird lights that can be seen under the abandoned platforms west of platforms 7&8. Anyone got any idea what the space is underneath?<div><br></div><div><img src="http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae221/Redarkady/bpCEAfUX.jpg"><br></div><div><img src="http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/ae221/Redarkady/bpCEAfUX.jpg"><br></div>

Ali

<p>If they do end up suspending the cycle lane  the roadd surface needs fixing on the station side of the road. It is dangerous if your on  a bike and get squeezed in to the gutter by a vehicle.  It was great to get back on to the green cycle trcak after the scaff holding  was taken down  after  the new bridge works.</p><p>I think you might find that TfL will be right when it come  to the trafic flow of people to the "other side".  They have a good record of crowd management as was seen during the  Olympics and use sohistcated software to model it.</p><p>If some thing goes wrong with train running or an  incident you will get a backlog and that is what  happens  right now at the Wells Terance entrance. </p><p> </p><p>Christmas was a Network Rail issue which  was a complete  comedy of errors from a Project planning perspective and not great for the Customers.  </p>

Arkady

The Station Place Gateline is being installed as I type.

Arkady

Like so:<div><br></div><div><img src="https://ton.twitter.com/1.1/ton/data/dm/582570047903793152/582570047937314816/sRTBaJrx.jpg:large?oauth_signature_method=HMAC-SHA1&amp;oauth_signature=swJ6cK3jTY6v62S5/Jhd+S/NVME=&amp;oauth_consumer_key=yT577ApRtZw51q4NPMPPOQ&amp;oauth_version=1.0&amp;oauth_token=341996974-d1t44C4M7CUdLE1Pzz3KzUy2L6mYANv0fbR36wRJ&amp;oauth_timestamp=1427730898&amp;oauth_nonce=WkoSf3RZNK0c17KAHoao8A"><br></div>

Arkady

I attended the first steering group meeting of a prospective Finsbury Park Station User Group last night. <br><br>The TfL rep was quite convincing - they've done their numbers. Most interesting, though, is that they have tried and so far failed to convince NR to gateline *their* Station Place entrance, so for the time being the underground platforms will still be accessible via the spiral staircases for those who want to avoid a gateline.<br><br>I asked why it would take three years (rather than say one) before the new western entrance is opened. The short answer is that the new entrance is one of the last things due to be completed in the City North construction programme. TfL lobbying means that the new entrance and connecting street should open before the buildings overlooking that street are entirely completed, but that's as far as it has been possible to influence them. And in many ways this is fair enough - City North are complying with the planning permission that has been granted... by Islington Council.<br><br>In my view its the Council who dropped the ball - when the new application went in to close Wells Terrace and demolish the entrance tunnel they should have insisted that the new entrance and street were completed first, and the shops offices and housing thereafter.<br><br>I doubt that there is much room to change things now. If the new arrangements at the station prove disasterous and this leads to bad press, then then maybe there will be some room for lobbying. But TfL are confident that it will work. We'll see.

JoeV

Thanks for the update Arkady. Do you know how many barriers/entry gates will be installed at Station Place? I passed through last night and there were only three installed (as in your picture). There's room for more and I hope more are to come, otherwise it will be jammed.

Arkady

I was told that they will go all the way across that space. I think it's being finished today. I *think* the rep said that there would be two wide barriers and four small ones, but I may be misremembering. Apparently they are the new, mega-fast gates. They will be left open during events (e.g. home games) and they have the option of leaving them open at other busy times, as long as the station isn't overcrowded.

Arkady

I forgot to say - during the first two weeks of closure there will apparently be loads of staff around to direct people, and lots of new singage. I believe a massive vinyl banner is going up at Wells Terrace today - points for the first person to share a photo of it.

Sutent

My biggest concern is the area around the bus station in Wells Terrace, Its not very pedestrian friendly and is I feel a high risk area for accidents eserpcially with the high amounts of human traffic. I think think TFL should something about pedestrianising it with zebra crossings etc

Papa

Thanks Arkady, don't suppose you asked about bikes and cycle parking. Or are cyclists going to park at Wells Terrace and walk round (seems unlikely many will do that)

Arkady

What do cyclists do at the moment?<div><br></div><div>Cycling did come up. Concern was expressed that the cycle path under the bridge ought to be closed, as it's already obstructed by pedestrians a lot of the time, and this will get worse when commuters are being funnelled under the bridge. Apparently these concerns have already been lodged with Islington.</div>

krappyrubsnif

I like the idea of 'singage' as per Arkady. I'm picturing TfL uniformed staff hollering out instructions in song. If so, what tune?

Arkady

Bohemian Rhapsody.

Sutent

I run down that bit of cycle lane only because the pavement is full of people. In my experience it is rarely used by cyclists so closing it will make little difference. What will make a big difference if the closed the parking bay near the mini cab office

kreuzkav

I don't use the cycle lane under the bridge cause it's dangerous and frustrating as people and joggers use it too.  <div><br></div><div>Cycle Lanes in London are crap.</div>

Duncan

Sometimes I fantasise about redesigning the M1 to work like a cycle lane.<br><br><br>

kreuzkav

Duncan, I'd settle for a 2 metre (1 metre each way) segregated lane.  London promised so much and hasn't delivered.  I thought Boris who I've seen on his bike many a time through Islington despite him having right wing views would deliver for cyclists.  The Boris bikes were a plus but this has happened in lots of cities including Paris before us.<div><br></div><div>Come on London start building more segregated cycle lanes, not dangerous ones like under FP bridge.</div>

marko

@Sutent: I'm totally with you on the issue of taxis parking by the southbound cycle lane.   However, there's no closing of the bay - there isn't one - the lane has a single yellow line, and taxis are presumably parked illegally most of the time.  Making this a double yellow line and some enforcement is what's required.  <div><br></div><div>I can also attest to the danger of pedestrians having had an collision with a pedestrian whilst I was cycling on that lane.   I got off fairly lightly, whilst the hugely apologetic pedestrian who walked off the pavement onto the cycle lane right in front of me was thrown across the pavement and bounced off the wall. </div><div><br></div><div>I wouldn't be using the lane at all if there weren't parked cars for most of the time. </div>

sg_mike

TfL hasn't covered itself in glory on this. They left it to Islington to consult on the changes to the underground station rather than the actual users of the Wells Terrace entrance who mostly come from LB Haringey by bus. Can anyone remember any posters at the station asking for views on the redevelopment? While it's good that they're making the station more accessible, they certainly didn't make clear the disruption involved. As a rough estimate, the additional walk by users is worth about £10m over the construction period. The key things I'd like to see from TfL are the business case they used for making the decision to close Wells Terrace, and a copy of the safety audit they undertook to show SGR is safe with that number of additional people walking underneath. Not just for pedestrians but for cycle users. Any chance that someone could get hold of copies? TFL and LBI need to pull their collective fingers out and sort out SGR before there's a serious accident. It wouldn't cost that much - filling out the well known potholes on the southern end that fill up with water and drench walkers as well as being lethal to cyclists, making the section of road under the bridge no parking 24/7 to give more room to cyclists, and put some basic pigeon guards on the "low bridge" warning sign at the northern end. It's basic stuff, but sometimes the arrogance of those organisations means they think they can get out of their basic safety responsibilities.

Arkady

I'm awaiting a copy of the safety audit, I will post it here once I have it.

Papa

Apologies, I should have repeated my point above when asking what will they do about cyclists.<div><br></div><div>It's about bike parking. At the moment they have racks in Wells Terrace which are overflowing every working day from people who cycle to get the tube there.</div><div><br></div><div>When the Wells Terrace entrance closes are TFL imagining all those people will still park their bikes on one side of the station and walk all the way round to the other one?</div><div><br></div><div>Or will they be providing at least the same amount of new cycle parking racks in Station Place?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>

Sutent

@Papa - I very much doubt there will be new bike parking space on station place. Where do you think they will install them? Couldn't the 50 pence a day locked parking space  next to Rowans be  extended to accommodate the bikes?<div>Otherwise Papa it looks like the cyclists will have to walk like everyone else</div>

Papa

That's my point Sutent, <div><br></div><div>This lasts three years and TFL appears to be providing no plan for bikes - a mode of transport it, the Government etc. actively promote.</div><div><br></div><div>I find it highly unlikely people are going to cycle to one side of the station and then walk round. Instead, they'll descend on the other side and simply lock bikes to anything they can find, milling about hunting for spots and adding to the general congestion.</div><div><br></div><div>Station Place is pretty big and open. It has as much room on it somewhere for a bike rack somewhere, as the pavement outside the shops by Wells Terrace has for the ones there.</div>

Ali

<p>While the yellow paint is out they should put double yellows outside the Sainsburys along with the council snapper car to get  a few fines going to stop people parking, jumping into the shop and holding up the traffic </p><p>Last night in front of two police men who seem to be arresting a beggar I asked a guy who had just parked to move on as he was causing a traffic jam and he can't park there  legally   Two buses and lost of cars where held up and he said  it was legal when I asked the  police to intervene the  guy started shouting a lot about cyclists and the two Plod were useless and did nothing !</p><p>Pathetic really !</p>