Finsbury Park Station/City North Development

NorthNineteen

How long do we actually think the extra walk is, I'm highly dubious of the TfL official figures of "just over 1 minute".

kreuzkav

One minute, no way.  Factoring in crowds at rush hour. Three minutes minimum, especially if you come from the west rather than straight down SGR.  It's not just the time but the hastle of the bridge and narrow walking conditions, lots of traffic,cycles.. then an extra crush getting in.  

Sutent

If I ever get The tube in rush hour I will go through fonthill rd.

poxy

Isn't the pavement under the railway bridges on the west side of SGR half pavement / half cycle-lane? That's going to be fun in the rush-hour.

miss annie

I was at the station at 8.20am yesterday. Four packed buses arrived as I was walking down Clifton Terrace and had just disgorged their passengers at Wells Terrace entrance - chaos. The station gates were closed as the platforms were already over crowded, there were hundreds of people there. The thought of all those people, plus an extra bus load every couple of minutes, trying to get round to Station Place in a tearing hurry on that narrow pavement under the bridges fills me with dread. I will be astonished if there are no accidents. As Poxy says, it is a bike lane too. Also, I haven't noticed any of the posters notifying us about closure of the entrance, and if I haven't I'm sure it's going to come as a surprise to a lot of other people. It is going to be a right 'mare.

graeme

<div><br></div><div>I wonder if anyone at Great Northern is considering the impact on their already crammed train services at Hornsey/Harringay from people avoiding FP? Some trains at Harringay > Moorgate are already unboardable at peak...  I guess they get paid no matter who is left on the platform.</div>

Arkady

@graeme - It's a good question. I'm certainly planning to switch to Harringay. We should see additional capacity on that line over the nexct few years, but not in time for this.

Arkady

@missannie - there are <a href="

https://twitter.com/David_C_Lewis/status/577903934238511105

">one or two posters about</a>*, but they are easy to miss. I saw someone looking at one last night with their mouth open in horror.<br><br>I think they might have to close the bike lane, maybe even convert it pavement temporarily.<div><br></div><div>*My favourite comment on that tweet is "that date is Hitler's birthday."</div>

krappyrubsnif

I think somebody could clean up by offering accompanied cycle commuting road trains down to the West End when the weather improves.

Ali

<p>Poxy  it is a third cycle lane two thirds  pavement.</p><p>Why not have the buses terminate at the bottom  end of Fonthill so people can get in at the Seven Sisters road entrance.</p><p>Think of all the extra fitness people will get for free </p><p>It is daft if there  is a way to porvide a temporary entrance.</p><p> </p><p>Is theer not a gateline being introduced at the same time so the  ability to control crowds into the station will be better</p>

therattle

@Ali, I can't see how the buses would be able to turn around and get back to the Wells Terrace station to start their routes again. I'm dreading this. <br>

Arkady

Someone started a petition. Wrong petition, though. People should be campaigning to limit the time it's closed, and campaign for a temporary entrance. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/keep-wells-terrace-open

Ali

<p>the rattle</p><p> </p><p>Drop of at the  bottom of Fonthill go around the Rainbow building  back on to Seven Sisters and turn left back on to Fonthill and pick up all the people who come out the Tube the way they went in </p>

duffer

If anyone has a Times sub, check this out:<br>http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/article4386131.ece<br>I posted several hours ago asking whether the author is (i quote) "as mightily peeved [this being a family paper...] as I am over the closure of the west exit to Finsbury Park underground station?"<p>I wonder whether it's not been posted because i follow up with: "TfL's rather good at simply ignoring the wishes of its punters where developers are concerned..."</p>

kreuzkav

Totally agree with Miss Annie.  This is a Health and Safety Issue and I think with the narrow pavements, traffic and bikes and swarms of people descending off buses this is a dangerous situation.  And I don't think TFL have thought it through.  Network Rail got it wrong around New Year and chaos occurred.  <div><br></div><div>I'm already cycling four times a week and will do it five times a week cutting up Tollington and avoiding what will be a hell hole.</div><div><br></div><div>I think we're all united on this one.</div>

krappyrubsnif

Uh ..... public meeting?  Venue?  Ask TfL, Islington, architects, developers to attend & explain themselves.   Invite police, health and safety, City Hall, press.   Loads of people would come.  Come on Arkady, man of the people!

Arkady

I've had sight of the TfL communications plan. Apparently there will be a 'meet the manager' event on 16 April.<div><br></div><div>I'm not a man of the people, I'm a man *for* the people.</div><div><br></div><div>Today's Islington Tribune may be interesting.</div>

Ali

Who is going to nebe the manager, local staion or the line director ?

NorthNineteen

Ohhh, I know the Vic line manager! Hope it's him... But I suspect it will be the station manager.<div><br></div><div>Pasta Remoli seems to be progressing fast.  Also, I see they aren't exactly hanging around with the demolition of City North.</div>

Arkady

Yep, it took less than two days to demolish the whole hideous mural.

Arkady

Contractors appointed: http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2015/03/19/mclaren-swoops-on-130m-north-london-job/

duffer

Arkady - this is up now<br>http://www.islingtontribune.com/news/2015/mar/tfl-urged-think-again-over-plan-shut-finsbury-park-tube-station-entrance-three-years<br>;

maclondon

i think we may be getting a bit overly dramatic here. The difference between Wells Terrace and Station Place is literally the bit from the corner of Stroud Green Road and the Station Place entrance (remember how long the Wells Terrace tunnel is). So only if you are coming from West of Clifton Terrace will your time be more than a minute Also, the key congestion points are the scrums around the stairs and at the oyster card readers - if anything, this will be better as their will be fewer conflicting flows and the gateline will allow people to avoid having to queue to use the readers. The station closures are almost always down to the Piccadilly or Victoria line disruptions, not the volume of passengers. TfL are not Network Rail or the train franchises - they generally know what they are doing. Having said that, the 3 year closure is a bit long and is likely to be less (me thinks United House are not committing to deliver key bits of works and TfL are taking a conservative view).

ADGS

Yes, because we all know how major engineering and construction projects tend to be done quicker than expected in modern Britain, rather than overrunning and overspending...

maclondon

OHH ADGS - we are cynical! so HS1, Kings Cross, numerous DLR projects, Victoria Line upgrade, both Westfield centres, the Overground upgrades all came in late and overspent? And that little project called Crossrail where over 21kms of tunnels are almost finished and the first phase of Tottenham Court Road station open to the public 3 months early is bound to fail! If you are talking about Network Rail projects then you would have a point. Oh and by the way, the myth that this is a uniquely British disease is plain wrong - witness the Dutch high speed railway which is still not quite open, the Boston Big Dig, NYC Second Avenue subway now 3 years late and even those efficient Germans!

Awesome_Wells

<<<i think we may be getting a bit overly dramatic here. The difference between Wells Terrace and Station Place is literally the bit from the corner of Stroud Green Road and the Station Place entrance (remember how long the Wells Terrace tunnel is). So only if you are coming from West of Clifton Terrace will your time be more than a minute Also, the key congestion points are the scrums around the stairs and at the oyster card readers - if anything, this will be better as their will be fewer conflicting flows and the gateline will allow people to avoid having to queue to use the readers. The station closures are almost always down to the Piccadilly or Victoria line disruptions, not the volume of passengers. TfL are not Network Rail or the train franchises - they generally know what they are doing. Having said that, the 3 year closure is a bit long and is likely to be less (me thinks United House are not committing to deliver key bits of works and TfL are taking a conservative view).>>> I don't think many people are perturbed about the (admittedly minor) increase to their journey time in terms of the extra walk to the other side of the station. I think their worries – aside from the obvious safety concerns about the crowds under the railway bridge on Stroud Green Road, which will definitely be a concern on match days and at rush hour, as has been demonstrated in the past when Wells Terrace has been closed – centre more on delays that will develop from condensing the station to two small entrances and further restricting them by simultaneously introducing ticket gates. Introducing gates at the other entrances will move the key congestion points to Station Place and Seven Sisters Road, further increasing the crush of people. In the long term, the gates are a good idea, but they should have been introduced when the new entrance was ready, not now. The flow of people will improve in one sense – but there will be delays funnelling an increased number of people in at once. It has been suggested that Station Place will be entrance only during the morning rush hour peaks, which will further restrict access from Seven Sisters, which will serve as the only exit. The only way of alleviating the problems – or at least, reducing them to the current level – would be to keep Wells Terrace open during the works until a temporary or permanent Western Entrance opens. King's Cross managed to retain full access during redevelopment; surely Finsbury Park can do the same?

cliffyT

Apologies to jump right in here! Absolutely baffled by the sign I saw coming back from holiday today... I live (unfortunately) on Clifton Terrace, have been disrupted by TFL's night works for the last couple of months, it's genuinely making my life hell being awoken at 3am every night. Complained, told I would receive a response within 10 days and no surprises I haven't. On an entirely selfish point, can someone who knows much more about this redevelopment than me say it will result in more daytime works and less night time now that wells terrace exit will be closed?!! On a unselfish note, is there a petition yet for the wells terrace closure? It is going to be absolute mayhem. It seems insane they haven't improved the other entrances/internal flow of the station before shutting an incredibly busy entrance. Guess I should buy a bike. Arsenal games will also be a nightmare?!

Duncan

I see that Wells Terrace is going to be closed for three years.  Three years?  Without any explanation of how they tried to keep it down to six months but realised that wouldn't work.<br><br>I realise it's not a huge inconvenience when it's quiet (although Awesome_Wells it does affect more people than you think as it applies to anyone coming on a bus from the North - or maybe not. Maybe the buses will stop somewhere else?).  Lucky I'm not using FP for work at the moment.<br><br>Is there a neat document showing what is actually happening?  I saw a neat artist's picture of a sort of market area which looks ace, but the full Islington document is soooo long I am too confused.<br>

Arkady

Duncan, honestly your best bet is just to skim read this thread, taking especial note of the pictures.

maclondon

Cliffy-T the plans will be disruptive if you next to the Wells terrace entrance. I would go onto the Islington website as most of the work will be done by the developers United House, rather thsn TfL. They should have dettails of when the work ill happen - would be suprised if there is no night time work but suspect most of it will happen during the day - there are some links to their website further up this thread. at the end of day, the developers are paying for most of the work as a planning gain/developer contribution - without it the station would probably stay unmodernised which would lead to further problems in the years to come. the new ticket concourse also opens up a 2nd cross passageway, lifts to all platforms and a general upgrade. We can all moan about it, but unless we are prepared to increase public subsidy for transport which has dropped by nearly half since 2007 in London or pay even higher fares then TfL will have to depend on development to pay for most station upgrades. one of United House's ne buildings sits on top of the current Wells Terrace passageway! They are incentivise to finish early as they can then flog us all some coffee, cinema tickets or even more exotic treats!