Concerts in the Park

Mirandola

elaborate... (Edited to add: I have no idea if this is the right thing to do. Personally, I'd rather it didn't happen because I like the park peaceful. I just think it can be healthy to try to put things in context and try to imagine how the other side are thinking rather than just assume they are lazy/incompetent/corrupt).

miss annie

The £600,000 payout to Sharon Shoesmith and the whopping great salaries for senior council workers have to be funded somehow I suppose. I don't think that people are against this because they just want a peaceful park. Most people don't have gardens, the park is an incredibly precious local open space available any time to anyone who wants to use it. I see why the council thinks as it does, I just don't agree with the thinking.

vetski

I can also see their thinking - though I think it is a bit lazy and they've gone for the low-hanging fruit (there's a nice management clich<span style="font-size: 10pt;">é). If they left the number of event days the same and charged promoters a sensible %, they'd hit & even exceed their annual target with no extra disruption at all. Or cut the chief exec's salary & pension entitlement, and there's around £20K right there. Why on earth a council chief exec earns more than the PM has always baffled me.</span><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>

DillysDad

Don't forget the bonuses for the Homes For Haringey staff.<br><br>The councils target from the park is £165,000. They raised £130,000 from the SR gig alone. Now they have working parking meters, plus the fairs, circus, BMF and a boat load of filming (which in itself pays very well) the council will hit their budget.<br><br>The way the council are bullying their way through this, accepting Licensing applications before the consultation is complete is immoral. Sadly, it's what we've come to expect.<br><br>As a council tax payer, the park is pretty much the only thing in the borough that I get enjoyment from. They've already started charging for sports facilities in the park, taking half of the park away for 3 MONTHS provides way less value for money.<br><br>Meanwhile, they also tried (not sure where it got to) to spend £800,000 (I think) on consultation for better customer service. £800,000 is £50,000 more than they stand to make from 18 days worth of gigs at 50,000 capacity (10,000 more than the already massively over crowded SR gig). Let's face it, if the council were better at what they should be doing, they wouldn't need to improve their customer service, nobody would be complaining to the 3rd/4th most complained about council in the country!!!<br><br>The arrogance of Simon Farrow at the meeting the other week was unbelievable. He couldn't answer a single question efficiently. He had an air of someone who couldn't give two tosses what the residents wanted. If this goes through, I say we organise a coach to his house in Essex, blast music over a full weekend and urinate through his letter box.<br>

Churros

I just wanted to reopen this discussion and remind people that they can comment on the <a href="http://www.haringey.gov.uk/finsburyparkevents">council proposals</a> to have far more events in Finsbury Park. Closing date for comments is 10 November.<div><br></div><div>In fact there's currently an application to hold the Live Nation three-day Wireless festival there next year. It's nice to have big events on our doorstep in some ways but it will mean over half the park is closed to the public for the best part of a fortnight (while they set up and dismantle).  Details are posted in the park and somewhere on the Haringey website. Comments to <span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(79, 88, 85); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px; "><span class="s5" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(37, 141, 173); font-size: 1em; position: static !important; "><a href="licensing@haringey.gov.uk">licensing@haringey.gov.uk</a></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(79, 88, 85); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px; "><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(79, 88, 85); font-family: 'Lucida Grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 15px; ">NorthNineteen's comment about charges for park use is very prescient. The council only got about £100k for the Stone Roses gigs (gross of all cleaning costs, policing, park damage etc) while the promoters grossed over £6million. Suggest you send your comments to the <a href="http://www.haringey.gov.uk/finsburyparkevents">council consultation</a> and suggest they charge a realistic fee for hiring out 'our' community assets.</span></div>

miss annie

Bloody hell! Wireless is ridiculously massive. The residents adjoining Hyde Park (the former home of Wireless) managed to kick up enough fuss to get it shipped out to Olympic Park last year.

andy

Wireless is too big for FP

vetski

From Entertainmentwise.com: "<span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">We must admit, our eyebrows were raised when organisers announced this year's Wireless Festival would be moved from the accessible Hyde Park to the Olympic Park but it was actually a wise choice considering the sheer volume of people who bought tickets."</span><br style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; outline: 0px; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12px;"><br><div>Though I can't seem to find anything which mentions actual numbers!</div>

andy

<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">http://www.efestivals.co.uk/festivals/wireless/2013</font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">50,000 a day</font></div>

DillysDad

@churros Actually, the council netted £130,000 from the SR. The police an extra £30,000. AND it's not 2 weeks of half a park it's actually 12 weeks!!!! Mew must all film out the so called consultation. The fact that they've allowed Live Nation to apply for a licence before they've even heard from the constituents says everything about how hard we have to fight this.

vetski

50k attendees for 3 successive days? Going with 'Hell, no' on that one.

gardener-joe

This - below - from our MP adds some nice context to the financial conversation here :<br><br>Dear -----,<br> <br> We are in the midst of a social housing crisis in Haringey – with over 10,000 individuals and families stuck on the waiting list for a Council home.<br> <br> And it’s not plain sailing for those in Council accommodation, either. Every week, my office hears from residents who suffer leaks, boiler breakdowns and damp – and often they are left for months without proper repairs.<br> <br> Meanwhile,<strong> leaseholders are expected to raise five-figure sums in little over a month</strong> for major works but aren’t even asked about contractors and quotes.<br> <br> <strong>This is unacceptable. </strong>More homes need to be built, and Haringey Council need to improve their services to current tenants.<br> <br> <strong>Yet, Labour-run Haringey Council haven’t built any new homes in 25 years.</strong> Instead of investing in new housing stock during the Blair and Brown years (when they had more money than they knew what to do with) – they wasted their money and let the waiting list grow longer and longer.<br> <br> And the culture of waste at Haringey Council continues, despite the tough economic times.<br> <br> <strong><a href="http://haringeylibdems.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=540f5bc6ae6b221236b688e59&id=2fa09be901&e=591b43b3d2" style="color:#0000ff;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:normal" target="_blank">News recently broke</a> that staff at Homes for Haringey – Haringey Council’s housing body – claimed over £3.7million in bonuses in the last two years (2011-13). Some employees received banker-style bonuses of around double their annual salary.</strong><br> <br> It’s sickening, especially as the Labour-run Council cancelled Decent Homes repair work on hundreds of local houses due to a ‘lack of money’.<br> <br> To put this in context - £3.7 million could have gone towards refurbishing 300 local homes. That’s the size of the entire Sandlings estate in Noel Park. Instead, Haringey Labour allowed it to be spent on enormous bonuses.<br> <br> <strong>I think public money should go towards building houses – not on bonuses. <a href="http://haringeylibdems.us2.list-manage.com/track/click?u=540f5bc6ae6b221236b688e59&id=5665a90e55&e=591b43b3d2" style="color:#0000ff;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:normal" target="_blank">Please sign this petition if you agree.</a></strong><br> <br> With enough signatures, hopefully we can convince the Labour Council to spend money more wisely next year. <br> <br> Best,<br> <img alt="Lynne's signature" style="width:150px;min-height:111px" height="111" width="150" align="none"><br> <br> Lynne<br> P.S. If you think the Labour-run council should spend money on building houses, not on bonuses – <a href="http://haringeylibdems.us2.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=540f5bc6ae6b221236b688e59&id=9382962e69&e=591b43b3d2" style="color:#0000ff;text-decoration:underline;font-weight:normal" target="_blank">please sign the petition</a> and forward this email to other local residents.<br>

DillysDad

Again, the council are wasting a hideous amount of money. £600k to Shoesmith. £3m in bonuses and they still proposed to waste £800k on better customer service in their call centre. Haringey Councils financial management is an absolute disgrace. Nearly £4.5m would have built a lot of homes. When, as residents, as council tax payers do we say enough is enough? Remember the map in the consultation, the one that told us we'd still have a Clissold Park sized park during the events? Take a look at the plans for the Wireless festival ... During term time!!! http://opinion8.ning.com/m/discussion?id=6311863:Topic:49256 I can feel myself getting all Michael Douglas, in Falling Down over those vacuous chuffers charged with our well being.

gardener-joe

Leave your views here LibDem councillors' poll ... <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1r8qobcmpDDS9hHN_iEGYQtmy9TduEgGJmw93h-9iVyQ/viewform?edit_requested=true>;

timgallagher

@gardener-joe ;<div>I think it's a bit rich to claim that Lynne Featherstone '<span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">adds some nice context to the financial conversation', when she is a member of a government that is slashing Haringey's budget by £144 million over 6 years. </span></div><div><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">I have been using Finsbury Park all my life and am strongly against these new concert plans, but we need to be clear about the council's reasons for the proposed increase - it is because Haringey is utterly broke due to central government cuts. </span></div>

yagamuffin

@timgallagher Or, <span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Haringey is utterly broke due to inept financial management from council officials. I think the truth probably lies somewhere in between, albeit a little more the Council's fault and a little less the LibCons.</span><div><span style="font-family: 'lucida grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Sadly in my experience it seams that Labour run council's are always mis-managed, poorly run, money-eating machines.</span></div>

HelenM

The draft plans include letting a circus come to the park once a year. I like the sound of that.

Ali

<P>Ms Featherweight is part of a government which has within its power to force councils to build houses but all it has done has stoked up house inflation by the Help to Buy schemes. Very Freddie Mac Fanny Mae ! Why don't they  act ?</P> <P>Shoesmith was sacked with out using the the correct dismisal processes so it was illegal and she has got compensation just like anyone lese in the same situation.</P> <P>The LibDems have started their election campaign, this time they have a very crediable  candidate up against them so MS L will probably  end up in the Lords.</P> <P>More "Dog Whistle  politics ! Oops sorry it is all the immigrants taking all the houses ! </P>

DillysDad

Don't forget that the SGRA meeting with Simon Farrow is tonight from 7:30. Unfortunately I can't make it but it would be great if anyone from here who does were able to give us a summary afterwards.<br>

Arkady

Ali, Haringey Lib Dems recently put forward a proposal to build new council housing in the borough, and Haringey Labour voted it down.  Labour have built no new council housing in Haringey since the 1980s.<div><br></div><div>I like your suggestion that the Lib Dems in national government should override Haringey Labour's bad decisions, and think it's very brave of you to admit that this is necessary. Though I do think it would be better if Haringey were run by a party that didn't require national intervention due to utter incompetence and short-sightedness.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, the housing shortage is hardly new or unpredicted. Odd, don't you think, that Labour did bugger all about it during the 13 years they were in government?</div>

Arkady

Also, given that the Labour candidate for Hornsey & Wood Green was put forward by UNITE - now famous for their appalling shenanigans in Falkirk - I'd be careful about describing her as 'credible'.

DillysDad

For me it's about tough choices that look to the future and not satisfying the short term electorate. There's no bigger issue than the environment so I'll be voting for the Green Party. Better than spoiling a ballot or not voting at all. Different enough from the other 3 too. <br>

Ali

<P>Arkady, is that you  "Dog Whistling"  what  has Falkirk got to do with Hornsey?  We don't have a petrol chemical works in our ward or the record of the unreformed   Scottish  Labour party. Why do you think the SNP managed to get into power when the system  was loaded against  them.</P> <P>The Labour candidate comes from Islington Council so has expreirence beating the  LibDems locally.</P> <P>If I was LibDem (who I  voted for last time)  I would  be worried. This probably explains the recent large number  of e-mails from LF about local issues helps take our mind away from waht has happened at national level.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

yagamuffin

And therein lies my major problem with politics in this country.<div>In my experience, from what I have seen, heard and read Lynne Featherstone is a very good MP for her constituents. Despite this, because the party she belongs to is now in Government she has a big chance of losing her seat at the next election. I just hope it's not to the detriment of the local area and that whoever replaces her will continue her good work.</div>

Ali

But of course she is in government as a Minister she is no better or no worse than any of them

Arkady

In politics, a ‘dog whistle’ is when you say one thing and mean another. I mean precisely what I say. Labour keep getting themselves into rule-breaking tangles, don’t they? You want a local example? Did you hear about the appalling selection controversy in St Anne’s Ward? Absolutely staggering.<br><br>Labour have run Haringey for 42 years, we have one of the highest levels of complaints despite some of the highest council tax rates, and have been described as a ‘failed state’ by the Local Government Secretary. Why, pray, would we want to reward their pitiful failure?<br><br>Yes, Lynne Featherstone and her councillors and activists work hard locally, and we’re not shy about pointing out our achievements.<br><br>I don’t know why you are confusing and conflating local and national government – what on earth does Westminster have to do with running Haringey? But as for nationally; if I was asked to name one thing that this government will be remembered for in 20 years time – other than demonstrated that pluralism and coalition government can work in the UK – I would point to the Equal Marriage Act. An Act created and pushed through by our own Lynne Featherstone, despite it not being in the Coalition agreement, and in the face of shrill protest from the Tory back benches. She’s not just my MP, she’s my hero. We should be incredibly proud of her.<br>

Arkady

“But of course she is in government as a Minister she is no better or no worse than any of them”<br><br>What a staggeringly ignorant and risible thing to say.<br>

Mirandola

Pedantic point: a 'dog whistle' is where you say something that sounds innocuous, even boring, to most people but sends a clear message to those you want to reach. E.g. George W Bush once criticised a pro-slavery Supreme Court decision during a presidential debate. Went over the head of most of the audience (including me) because slavery being A Very Bad Thing is about as uncontroversial as it gets, but if you were a right wing fundamentalist you'd have known that it was an anti-abortion comment, because pro-life ministers had often compared that judgement to Roe v. Wade. As you were.

Ali

<A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog-whistle_politics</A>;

Arkady

Rest assured that when I referred to Labour’s tendency towards appalling shenanigans I meant only to refer to their tendency towards appalling shenanigans.