Incident on Seven Sisters Road

Toddlesocks

I went slong SGR today and it was heartwarming to see some of the shops supporting, and general vibe being even friendlier than usual, it reminded me why i love living here.

harpistic

I'm very glad to hear that; I'm working in Brighton this week, and had felt very torn over staying behind and showing solidarity - I'm glad to hear that Stroudy is rallying well.

miss annie

This is a tricky argument which always causes rows, but I don't believe that religion is mental illness. Saying religious factions are unhinged or mentally ill gives them an easy get out from conviction. I say this as someone who is a (currently non churchgoing) believer in God. I don't think anyone who knows me would glibly dismiss me as unhinged or mentally ill because of it. Mental health should be understood and taken more seriously. Sticking someone in a box marked mentally ill because you do not understand their actions is not the way forward. Terrorism is evil not necessarily mental illness.

@JefkeVanHoornzehout if that person has lived in Stroud Green for longer than a couple of weeks I guarantee she has 'experienced" Muslims as her shopkeeper, taxi driver, restaurant owner, near neighbour, postman, accountant, bank manager, doctor or any number of things other than terrorist.

JefkeVanHoornzehout

Well, Miss Annie, let's not get mired in questions of the rationality about belief in a divinity, and I don't want to turn this into a discussion on faith or atheism (or have a row!), as it's somewhat beside the point. What implies this person has mental problems is that his action suggests he believed that such a crude act solved something for him; was he capable of assessing the consequences? However, even if that's the case, this can still certainly be described as a terrorist act if the intention was to spread fear (or was it simply a hate crime fuelled by a bizarre sense of "them/us" revenge? These categorisations of crimes start to lose their usefulness the more one thinks about them). Similarly, one might argue that suicide attackers who believe they'll be rewarded in an afterlife have mental problems; how else can we explain their utter gullibility?

As for that person I was describing, obviously she's had positive interactions with Muslims in SG and beyond countless times over the decades, and ironically, I know she's had her life crucially improved and extended by medical professionals who happen to be Muslim. Yet, that sort of unthinking comment still occurred, and worse than that, wasn't retracted.

Thirdeariespace

The fact that many people who end up committing heinous crimes like terrorism have mental issues does not exhonerate or lessen the issues of extreme ideology. Anything as complex as complex as human behaviour is dependent on several factors, and any simple explanation (especially one that blames the peaceful Muslim community) has to be resisted.

There's no suggestion that people with mental issues are generally violent per se, nor that all terrorists have mental issues, but sometimes, a condition like depression can contribute or correlate to someone's sense of hopelessness and lack of trust in society. This is true for a lot of crime - an interesting and perhaps surprising stastistic is that over 60% of those who commit violence in the name of family honour, including so called "honour killings", have had previous treatment for mental issues. It's clearly something that can be taken into account.

The bizarre societal and media logic that claims that terrorism is *only* cultural/ideological if it's a BAME person is doing it, and *only* because of mental problems if a white person is, is a huge problem. There are lots of different causes and lots of different correlating factors with all crime, I think any criminologist would tell you.

trainspotter

@Minim you asked about other ways to show solidarity. There was a post on the Crouch End parents facebook group suggesting a delivery of cakes/treats to the Mosque at the end of Ramadan. I can find details if that interests you.

eerke

The aspect that seems missing from all the coverage is ridicule. I can't think of anything the attacker would dislike more that knowing he was being laughed at. He wants to feel proud of the terror and the seriousness of how he is treated.

Realistically, he did not drive all the way from Wales to drive into some people on a normal London road opposite a Pentecostal church. I bet he went round and round the one way system near the Mosque and eventually gave up and drove at the nearest people who looked Muslim. He's a pathetic incompetent loser. If this were in a Chris Morris film getting lost in a one way system and having to keep stopping at lights would be part of the script.

minim

Thanks @trainspotter I'm in that group so will have a look.

MHP

Iftar (breaking the fast) St. Thomas road (outside mosque) this Friday 8.30 - 10.30. Guest speakers. Please come along. All welcome!!
https://www.finsburyparkmosque.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/19420413_859519907555287_7068423201145352224_n.jpg

MMF

Interesting piece by The Guardian's Ian Jack, on last week's attack and the history of the street in which it happened.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/24/backstreet-finsbury-park-grief-love-migrant-history?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

gardener-joe

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